Why do people get so upset about pricing?

chris78

I don’t like the tactics of a small number of dealers, but at the end of the day are they wildly different from some of our best loved bricks and mortar stores who take a guitar in trade and then list and sell it at a significant mark up?

digitalscream

I don't think we have anybody who gets upset at shops selling stuff for reasonable profit. Some people get a bit annoyed at ridiculous pricing for certain amps and guitars being totally out of whack with exchange rates (ie the Transatlantic Tax).

The main problem is with bedroom dealers, who are explicitly not allowed to operate here. There are a number of reasons for this...

1 - The classifieds are a courtesy for members of this community, not a free sales channel for people trying to avoid platform fees on Reverb or eBay.

2 - They add pretty much piss-all to this community, only take.

3 - Their tactics for acquiring stock are almost always disingenuous, and that's something we try to stamp out on here.

4 - They're rarely actual businesses and so don't pay tax etc - so they're directly harming the legit businesses that we all rely on by undercutting them.

Offset

If you're knowledgeable enough you can smile, shake your head and move on when you see a ludicrously-priced guitar being offered up by a chancer.

I think the disapproval stems at the thought of someone who ISN'T especially knowledgeable getting sucked in by the flowery prose and hyperbole, the hi-res good quality pics and seemingly impressive seller credentials.  Ker-ching.

There are, of course, those who will cough up regardless of price because that is the specific guitar they want.  It's their money to do with as they wish.

Bigsby

TeleMaster said:

Everything is being bought up by a select few, put away and then later sold at high prices. Guitars, tickets Lego, Synths. You can say 'it's the market, don't buy it if you can't afford it blah blah' but this ignores the wider issue, that normal people are being priced out of EVERYTHING because of greed and opportunist behaviour that only serves the individual. It's not an insignificant issue. 

You make them sound like those lizard people that are running the world. But, as with this:

bgmartinsbridge said:

...now it's, I wonder what the small dealer bought off ebay last week and has inflated my thirty percent to achieve his required margin. 

I can't help wondering why the normal people don't just buy the stuff before the bedroom dealer? Isn't it just a numbers game, with normal people out numbering bedroom dealers? In other words, stop looking at the stuff bedroom dealers are selling on eBay, and start looking at the stuff they're buying.... then don't hang about, as they won't!

DrCornelius

Bigsby said:

TeleMaster said:

Everything is being bought up by a select few, put away and then later sold at high prices. Guitars, tickets Lego, Synths. You can say 'it's the market, don't buy it if you can't afford it blah blah' but this ignores the wider issue, that normal people are being priced out of EVERYTHING because of greed and opportunist behaviour that only serves the individual. It's not an insignificant issue. 

You make them sound like those lizard people that are running the world. But, as with this:

bgmartinsbridge said:

...now it's, I wonder what the small dealer bought off ebay last week and has inflated my thirty percent to achieve his required margin. 

I can't help wondering why the normal people don't just buy the stuff before the bedroom dealer? Isn't it just a numbers game, with normal people out numbering bedroom dealers? In other words, stop looking at the stuff bedroom dealers are selling on eBay, and start looking at the stuff they're buying.... then don't hang about, as they won't!

I think one of the issues is that the average gear hungry bloke on here works 9-5 to pay the bills (including guitar gear).  The bedroom dealers either do this full time or have enough flexibility to be on the sales sites all day long while they are at work.  Dont get me wrong, it's a lot of work constantly lowballing people or sending snide messages from multiple accounts to get your price down but putting that amount of time into it puts them at a distinct advantage

robgilmo

Maybe its because the gap between rich and poor is widening and even cheap guitars are becoming out of budget for a lot of people? Epiphone for instance,  Coupled with the cost of living crisis it puts a bad taste in peoples mouthes because its become a band wagon for some who see it as nothing more than an excuse to print money? 

Cols

chris78 said:

I don’t like the tactics of a small number of dealers, but at the end of the day are they wildly different from some of our best loved bricks and mortar stores who take a guitar in trade and then list and sell it at a significant mark up?

I’m yet to have Andertons feed me a sob story about how “it’s their dream guitar, they’ve always wanted one, and this is all the money they have in the world and they can’t scrape together a penny more” before buying it and flipping it at a significant markup.

robgilmo

Here is somethinbg to think about, supply and demand, common sense would suggest a supplier can lower prices when demand is high, because they are selling lots more, so more profit, so an ability to lower prices , do they? no , they raise their prices, they dont have to as they are already within their profit margin, so its down to basic greed which , contrary to populat belief it would seem, is a negative human trait..

goldtop

20 years ago, the number of people I met with more than 3 or 4 guitars was tiny. But two decades of cheap money have turned lots of people into collectors. We buy many more guitars than we can ever play.

Which means that the existing supply is serving two markets: players and collectors. (Three if you count the dealers who hold stock.)

So prices can only go one way ... until the collectors (or their heirs) start to shift these huge piles of barely played guitars.

TTony

robgilmo said:

Here is somethinbg to think about, supply and demand, common sense would suggest a supplier can lower prices when demand is high, because they are selling lots more, so more profit, so an ability to lower prices 

That’s the exact opposite to how supply & demand works.

For a given level of supply and in a free market, price increases as demand increases.  

Wazmeister

OilCityPickups said:

The market always does decide ... 

This is wisdom. And the truth.

Tone71

Other side of the coin.......

I'm looking to move on my LPJnr, bought it on here 6 years ago for £450. 

I'm not really sure on what it's worth now but looking at the current market they seem to start at about £750 so I feel weird about listing it and it lingers in a case not getting played.

Back to the original point, I think people get more upset about the ethics and general shittyness of creeping in the shadows, low balling and then listing high, more than the actual price point.

idiotwindow

Tone71 said:

Back to the original point, I think people get more upset about the ethics and general shittyness of creeping in the shadows, low balling and then listing high, more than the actual price point.

I think it is both. Few people will be impressed by the tactics of some small time dealers and they are rightly called out but there are also constant complaints on the forum about the price of guitars generally. Epiphones and Mexican Fenders for £1500, Gibson "taking the piss", etc. Like the OP, I don't get why people get upset about it – it's not as if anyone on this forum doesn't already have a guitar they can use.

OilCityPickups

idiotwindow said:

 it's not as if anyone on this forum doesn't already have a guitar they can use.

Have a wisdom ... 

Tannin

idiotwindow said:

 it's not as if anyone on this forum doesn't already have a guitar they can use.

So you haven't heard me play?

guyinlyon

elstoof said:

When a car dealer buys a car at x and sells at y, they generally add value by servicing, offering a warranty etc. so a higher price is often worth it.

A bedroom flipper adds fuck all, just takes something off the market and increases the price the very next day. Often before they’ve even received it themselves 

The 'bedroom flipper' may have found something priced under current market value and bought it to re-sell at current market value. No harm in that, it's just knowledge of the market.

(Most car dealer's do fuck all aside from washing the car.)

guyinlyon

TeleMaster said:

Everything is being bought up by a select few, put away and then later sold at high prices.

Ah-ha, the used guitar Illuminati.

Loosely affiliated  with the synthesizer Freemasons.

Roland

I have no problem with people making a profit on a transaction. Similarly, I have no problem with someone selling a guitar quickly at a low price in order to fund another purchase or unexpected expense, and having that same guitar re-appear closer to its market value, and being sold over a longer timescale.

However this forum is funded and supported by its members. What I do object to, on members’ behalf, is people who use forum resources solely for their own personal gain without contributing to forum finances or knowledge pool. I also object to dishonesty. 

Deadman

I often think people who get upset at people who get upset about pricing are the more upset people of the two types of people.

Paul_C

The biggest problem for me is that I nearly always buy something for a reasonable price which I'm happy to pay, but when times comes to sell it no-one wants it and I either sell at a huge loss or end up keeping it.