Why do people get so upset about pricing?

TTony

Paul_C said:

, but when times comes to sell it no-one wants it and I either sell at a huge loss or end up keeping it.

That'd be upsetting!

jasonbone75

Paul_C said:

The biggest problem for me is that I nearly always buy something for a reasonable price which I'm happy to pay, but when times comes to sell it no-one wants it and I either sell at a huge loss or end up keeping it.

That sounds more like both a problem and a solution matey

robgilmo

TTony said:

robgilmo said:

Here is somethinbg to think about, supply and demand, common sense would suggest a supplier can lower prices when demand is high, because they are selling lots more, so more profit, so an ability to lower prices 

That’s the exact opposite to how supply & demand works.

For a given level of supply and in a free market, price increases as demand increases.  






Thats my point exactly, I wasnt pointing out how it works, I was trying to point out the reasons why it works like that.

Bigsby

DrCornelius said:

Bigsby said:

TeleMaster said:

Everything is being bought up by a select few, put away and then later sold at high prices. Guitars, tickets Lego, Synths. You can say 'it's the market, don't buy it if you can't afford it blah blah' but this ignores the wider issue, that normal people are being priced out of EVERYTHING because of greed and opportunist behaviour that only serves the individual. It's not an insignificant issue. 

You make them sound like those lizard people that are running the world. But, as with this:

bgmartinsbridge said:

...now it's, I wonder what the small dealer bought off ebay last week and has inflated my thirty percent to achieve his required margin. 

I can't help wondering why the normal people don't just buy the stuff before the bedroom dealer? Isn't it just a numbers game, with normal people out numbering bedroom dealers? In other words, stop looking at the stuff bedroom dealers are selling on eBay, and start looking at the stuff they're buying.... then don't hang about, as they won't!

I think one of the issues is that the average gear hungry bloke on here works 9-5 to pay the bills (including guitar gear).  The bedroom dealers either do this full time or have enough flexibility to be on the sales sites all day long while they are at work.  Dont get me wrong, it's a lot of work constantly lowballing people or sending snide messages from multiple accounts to get your price down but putting that amount of time into it puts them at a distinct advantage

I'm not sure about that as an explanation. I doubt many (non-bedroom dealer) sellers on eBay are so desperate to sell that they'll take the first low ball offer that arrives minutes after they list something. I suspect the majority will at least give it until the weekend when all the 9-5 gear hungry blokes get to see the listing too, and can jump in with a 'decent' offer. 

I think it's a myth that bedroom dealers are snapping up everything that's listed AND doing so with low ball/sob story offers. And in some part, it's the myth that gets people upset about pricing. 

robgilmo

I wonder if bedroom flippers buy at auction, like a real auction , not EBay , then sell on at current market value? I dont see how you can assume someone who does this is creeping in the shadows etc, its how lots of people make a living, not just guitar buyers, if you want a bargain check out your local auction houses.
Edit - I flipped quite a few guitars in my time, not to make a living although I did make a few quid, but to try out and find keepers, which I did, I never overpriced guitars that I sold though, no point, Id still have them if I did that. From my experience I dont see how you could make a living flipping Epiphones and Mex Strats.

Philly_Q

I think there are two different issues here (well maybe three, but Essex Recording Studios is just a comedy outlier).

1. Bedroom dealers/flippers.
2. The big increases in both new and secondhand prices in the last four years.

In the first case, I don't understand why people get so irate when they sell something and three days later it's on eBay or Reverb at twice the price.  So what?  If I want £500 for a guitar and somebody gives me £500 for it, I don't give a shit if he then tries to sell it for £1,000.  Good luck to him, if he can manage it.

It would only annoy me if he'd said "oh mate, I've always wanted one of these, but I can only go up to £400, I'd have to sell my kid's bikes and my wife's wheelchair to raise the other £100".  And then three days later it's on eBay for £1,000.  Even then, a large part of my annoyance would be directed at myself, for being taken in.  I've never directly experienced the "flipper" situation, but a few times I've let myself be "pushed" into accepting a lower price, or taking something in part exchange, and I'm still annoyed with myself when I think about it now.

In the second case, I see a lot of threads about higher prices and it just seems like a weird denial of market forces, a refusal to accept that things cost more than they did a few years ago.  So what are you going to do, force prices back to 2019 with the sheer power of your righteous anger?

There's no denying, prices have gone up massively.  Look at the premium American brands on the Peach site, just as an example, and just about everything is £4k+.  Run-of-the-mill Gibson USA and Fender USA stuff is £2k+.  But when I see people saying "I'll never pay £1,500 for an Epiphone"... well, you won't be buying that Epiphone then.  An Indonesian Ibanez or Korean Schecter can cost you that kind of money or more, what's the difference really?

One thing that is new - as far as I'm aware, at least - is the phenomenon of Gibson, in particular, releasing high-end guitars in small runs which sell out immediately then appear on the used market at double the price (almost like ticket scalping).  It does seem to have encouraged ordinary sellers to vastly inflate the asking price of their own guitars, but I don't know if anything actually sells at these inflated prices?  If it doesn't, then the prices will come down... or people will just keep their stuff.

From a personal point of view, after 40 years of buying guitars and gradually creeping up the "maximum price" scale, the high end stuff is now too expensive, for me.  I'm not going to say £4k+ for a Suhr, Tom Anderson, PJE or Huber, or God knows how much for a Gibson Murphy Lab is "overpriced" in today's market, but it's more than I'm prepared to pay.  So my price range curve has peaked, and if I am looking to buy I've actually gone back down to a significantly lower price level.

Blaendulais

TTony said:

Do people really get upset about pricing?

Does anyone here not accept that general inflation and supply/demand (particularly of collectibles) means that someone could buy a guitar for £1000 5 years ago, and sell it for £2000 today?  (Granted, for most of us, that equation works the other way around).

What I've seen people getting upset about is the situation where someone - typically the bedroom dealer - has tried to con a seller into accepting a lower price in order to flip it themselves for profit.  And, an extension of that, where a disguised trader (those bedroom flippers again) abuses the good nature of the Classifieds here to siphon out mates-rates stuff to sell-on elsewhere.

And ERS - well, not sure anyone gets upset about him, he's just comedy gold ...

I only started playing guitar because of ERS.   

TeleMaster

Bigsby said:

TeleMaster said:

Everything is being bought up by a select few, put away and then later sold at high prices. Guitars, tickets Lego, Synths. You can say 'it's the market, don't buy it if you can't afford it blah blah' but this ignores the wider issue, that normal people are being priced out of EVERYTHING because of greed and opportunist behaviour that only serves the individual. It's not an insignificant issue. 

You make them sound like those lizard people that are running the world. But, as with this:

bgmartinsbridge said:

...now it's, I wonder what the small dealer bought off ebay last week and has inflated my thirty percent to achieve his required margin. 

I can't help wondering why the normal people don't just buy the stuff before the bedroom dealer? Isn't it just a numbers game, with normal people out numbering bedroom dealers? In other words, stop looking at the stuff bedroom dealers are selling on eBay, and start looking at the stuff they're buying.... then don't hang about, as they won't!

Well, not in that way   But the item goes up for sale, they get bought and a while later they're up for sale for a lot more with a significant up charge. This is only being done by a few people in comparison to the rest of us who just want to sell it at a reasonable price. 

Philly_Q

Blaendulais said:

TTony said:

Do people really get upset about pricing?

Does anyone here not accept that general inflation and supply/demand (particularly of collectibles) means that someone could buy a guitar for £1000 5 years ago, and sell it for £2000 today?  (Granted, for most of us, that equation works the other way around).

What I've seen people getting upset about is the situation where someone - typically the bedroom dealer - has tried to con a seller into accepting a lower price in order to flip it themselves for profit.  And, an extension of that, where a disguised trader (those bedroom flippers again) abuses the good nature of the Classifieds here to siphon out mates-rates stuff to sell-on elsewhere.

And ERS - well, not sure anyone gets upset about him, he's just comedy gold ...

I only started playing guitar because of ERS.   

Are you one of the local musicians helped by his philanthropy?

jasonbone75

Philly_Q said:

Blaendulais said:

TTony said:

Do people really get upset about pricing?

Does anyone here not accept that general inflation and supply/demand (particularly of collectibles) means that someone could buy a guitar for £1000 5 years ago, and sell it for £2000 today?  (Granted, for most of us, that equation works the other way around).

What I've seen people getting upset about is the situation where someone - typically the bedroom dealer - has tried to con a seller into accepting a lower price in order to flip it themselves for profit.  And, an extension of that, where a disguised trader (those bedroom flippers again) abuses the good nature of the Classifieds here to siphon out mates-rates stuff to sell-on elsewhere.

And ERS - well, not sure anyone gets upset about him, he's just comedy gold ...

I only started playing guitar because of ERS.   

Are you one of the local musician helped by his philanthropy?

FTFY

Offset

Blaendulais said:

I only started playing guitar because of ERS.   

You are Keith Gannon and I claim etc etc.

OilCityPickups

Roland said:

I have no problem with people making a profit on a transaction. Similarly, I have no problem with someone selling a guitar quickly at a low price in order to fund another purchase or unexpected expense, and having that same guitar re-appear closer to its market value, and being sold over a longer timescale.

However this forum is funded and supported by its members. What I do object to, on members’ behalf, is people who use forum resources solely for their own personal gain without contributing to forum finances or knowledge pool. I also object to dishonesty. 

Totally agree with you there ... unfortunately there are quite a few 'members' who  seem, most of the time,k to inhabit the Classified section only ... I think we are not the only forum to suffer this. 

Offset

OilCityPickups said:

Roland said:

I have no problem with people making a profit on a transaction. Similarly, I have no problem with someone selling a guitar quickly at a low price in order to fund another purchase or unexpected expense, and having that same guitar re-appear closer to its market value, and being sold over a longer timescale.

However this forum is funded and supported by its members. What I do object to, on members’ behalf, is people who use forum resources solely for their own personal gain without contributing to forum finances or knowledge pool. I also object to dishonesty. 

Totally agree with you there ... unfortunately there are quite a few 'members' who  seem, most of the time,k to inhabit the Classified section only ... I think we are not the only forum to suffer this. 

Problem is - how do you weed the buggers out???

Dr_Necessiter

So do people feel the same about Vintage & Rare and the other real shops that deal in that section of the market? 

Offset

Dr_Necessiter said:

So do people feel the same about Vintage & Rare and the other real shops that deal in that section of the market? 

Not really as I have no expertise (or interest) in the vintage guitar market.  Gut feel says you're buying the benefit of some expertise there (ie, it is what it purports to be) but what do I know?

Strat54

https://auctions.gardinerhoulgate.co.uk/catalogue/lot/6f1203ab5a83b9356c8d9fc103695932/63b778f7668dabe928d3800924a99077/the-guitar-auction-three-day-sale-including-guitars-lot-22/

becomes...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186255468159?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=-9y6BHQmS2u&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=AW-lATMFS-G&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


...and that is from a private seller and the original auction buyer.

goldtop

Strat54 said:

https://auctions.gardinerhoulgate.co.uk/catalogue/lot/6f1203ab5a83b9356c8d9fc103695932/63b778f7668dabe928d3800924a99077/the-guitar-auction-three-day-sale-including-guitars-lot-22/

becomes...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186255468159?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=-9y6BHQmS2u&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=AW-lATMFS-G&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

You should have bid £4500 then.

Strat54

goldtop said:

Strat54 said:

https://auctions.gardinerhoulgate.co.uk/catalogue/lot/6f1203ab5a83b9356c8d9fc103695932/63b778f7668dabe928d3800924a99077/the-guitar-auction-three-day-sale-including-guitars-lot-22/

becomes...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186255468159?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=-9y6BHQmS2u&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=AW-lATMFS-G&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

You should have bid £4500 then.

Guitar actually belonged to a deceased friend. I played it...pass.

Offset

Strat54 said:

https://auctions.gardinerhoulgate.co.uk/catalogue/lot/6f1203ab5a83b9356c8d9fc103695932/63b778f7668dabe928d3800924a99077/the-guitar-auction-three-day-sale-including-guitars-lot-22/

becomes...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186255468159?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=-9y6BHQmS2u&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=AW-lATMFS-G&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


...and that is from a private seller and the original auction buyer.

I get it - but it doesn't mean said chancer is going to sell it for that dumb-arsed amount :-)

Voxman

I'm with the OP.  If you don't like the price, don't buy it or only offer what you're prepared to pay.