I'm so angry right now... People should NOT be bullied because of what they wear...

robinbowes

Please try and understand the wider issue.

The important thing here is context. The same shirt, down the pub - not a problem. I might even wear it myself. But totally not appropriate in the professional workplace.

We need to get more women involved in tech, and one important thing that needs to happen to make that possible it to be inclusive and welcoming. There are many aspects to this, and one of those is avoiding casually sexist, borderline misogynist imagery in the professional workplace, especially when you're being broadcast globally to millions of people.

It's not just about media pressure and feminists, and the people who have complained are not all "twisted individuals".

R.

Wolfetone

Drew_fx said:

fuckwits fucking shitting fucking tosspots fuck 

Ahh, the eloquence....

ThePrettyDamned

robinbowes said:

Please try and understand the wider issue.

The important thing here is context. The same shirt, down the pub - not a problem. I might even wear it myself. But totally not appropriate in the professional workplace.

We need to get more women involved in tech, and one important thing that needs to happen to make that possible it to be inclusive and welcoming. There are many aspects to this, and one of those is avoiding casually sexist, borderline misogynist imagery in the professional workplace, especially when you're being broadcast globally to millions of people.

It's not just about media pressure and feminists, and the people who have complained are not all "twisted individuals".

R.

And why is it inappropriate?

The dude in that shirt managed to get something the size of a fridge on a comet after 10 years worth of travel - and his shirt has nothing to do with it. 

It's just a comic book style shirt. 

I know some people are flagging it, but in the greater context, it's so fucking meaningless.  I'd be more inclined to take from it that he's a comic and sci fi enthusiast, not a sexist. 

Especially when *real* sexism is still alive and kicking (in both directions).  There are just so many more important things to focus on, like the fact that he was part of a team that achieved something absolutely incredible - and his poor taste in clothing has nothing to do with it. 

ICBM

That self-righteous T-shirt that Clegg and Miliband were showing off their right-on credentials in the other week was more revealing in what it said about the wearer than this one. And more offensive, to me.

That said, he should probably have thought more carefully about wearing it, because he should have known the reaction it was likely to cause - even though it says more about the reaction than the shirt.

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM said:

That self-righteous T-shirt that Clegg and Miliband were showing off their right-on credentials in the other week was more revealing in what it said about the wearer than this one. And more offensive, to me.

That said, he should probably have thought more carefully about wearing it, because he should have known the reaction it was likely to cause - even though it says more about the reaction than the shirt.

Nail on the head, man. 

holnrew

robinbowes said:

Please try and understand the wider issue.

The important thing here is context. The same shirt, down the pub - not a problem. I might even wear it myself. But totally not appropriate in the professional workplace.

We need to get more women involved in tech, and one important thing that needs to happen to make that possible it to be inclusive and welcoming. There are many aspects to this, and one of those is avoiding casually sexist, borderline misogynist imagery in the professional workplace, especially when you're being broadcast globally to millions of people.

It's not just about media pressure and feminists, and the people who have complained are not all "twisted individuals".

R.

Couldn't disagree more. What says people in science don't give a fuck better than a guy in a Hawaiian shirt and tattoos? In STEM all that matters is results, and numerous women get along in it just fine without being made to feel unwelcome.

I'm doing an engineering course, yes it's mostly guys, but the girls there aren't treated any differently by anyone. 

Axe_meister

Consider the fact that this guy probably has a brain the size of the universe, he may just well have higher functioning ASD (seems to go with the territory). He is unlikely to even think that it may cause offence.

He's also probably been doing a load of shift work, not getting home and sleeping on a couch in the office (we do the same for a go-live weekend), he probably just through a whole bunch of clothes into a bag and went off to work, maybe never even knowing he was going to be on camera.

Phil_aka_Pip

robinbowes said:

Please try and understand the wider issue.

The important thing here is context. The same shirt, down the pub - not a problem. I might even wear it myself. But totally not appropriate in the professional workplace.

We need to get more women involved in tech, and one important thing that needs to happen to make that possible it to be inclusive and welcoming. There are many aspects to this, and one of those is avoiding casually sexist, borderline misogynist imagery in the professional workplace, especially when you're being broadcast globally to millions of people.

It's not just about media pressure and feminists, and the people who have complained are not all "twisted individuals".

R.

This is the same as saying that you're "more professional" if you wear a suit & tie.

FUCK OFF!!

You're "more professional" if you do your fucking job properly!!

Bidley

robinbowes said:

Please try and understand the wider issue.

The important thing here is context. The same shirt, down the pub - not a problem. I might even wear it myself. But totally not appropriate in the professional workplace.

We need to get more women involved in tech, and one important thing that needs to happen to make that possible it to be inclusive and welcoming. There are many aspects to this, and one of those is avoiding casually sexist, borderline misogynist imagery in the professional workplace, especially when you're being broadcast globally to millions of people.

It's not just about media pressure and feminists, and the people who have complained are not all "twisted individuals".

R.

I think the idea that women are put off being involved in 'tech' by the clothes people wear is sexist in itself, no?

vasselmeyer

You're mistaken. Whatever his day job, at the point he wore the shirt he was in front of millions of people. Whether the probe had landed or not he must have known that he going to be in front of the cameras either explaining how successful or unsuccessful his project had been. He still wore the shirt.

Anyone with any sense whatsoever would have known how sensitive the issue of alleged (note ALLEGED) misogyny is in current affairs. Examples, gamergate, Ched Evans etc. Therefore, in order to ensure that attention was paid to his project rather than his shirt he (or a friendly PR person) should have taken the decision that he would wear a shirt that was neutral and inoffensive to anyone.

People would have just seen his tattoo sleeves and noted the fact that he'd just managed to land a probe on a comet. They would have thought..."Wow...a cool scientist!" rather than paying attention to what he was wearing.

Common sense should have prevailed, and if he didn't have any then his PR people should have made the decison for him.

beed84

Phil_aka_Pip said:

robinbowes said:

Please try and understand the wider issue.

The important thing here is context. The same shirt, down the pub - not a problem. I might even wear it myself. But totally not appropriate in the professional workplace.

We need to get more women involved in tech, and one important thing that needs to happen to make that possible it to be inclusive and welcoming. There are many aspects to this, and one of those is avoiding casually sexist, borderline misogynist imagery in the professional workplace, especially when you're being broadcast globally to millions of people.

It's not just about media pressure and feminists, and the people who have complained are not all "twisted individuals".

R.

This is the same as saying that you're "more professional" if you wear a suit & tie.

FUCK OFF!!

You're "more professional" if you do your fucking job properly!!

Surely there are more layers to being professional than just having the necessary skills and knowledge to do a job properly. And surely doing a job properly incorporates  having good ethics, principles, appropriateness, and a generally high standard of professionalism to be perceived as professional.

mike_l

I see nothing wrong with that shirt at all.

I doubt any of the women I work with would find it offensive.

The problem is a few who shout as loud as they can, and create as much disturbance until they get their way. Sadly it's indicative of the society which has evolved.

robinbowes

Phil_aka_Pip said:

This is the same as saying that you're "more professional" if you wear a suit & tie.

No, it isn't.

R.

ICBM

mike_l said:

I see nothing wrong with that shirt at all.I doubt any of the women I work with would find it offensive.The problem is a few who shout as loud as they can, and create as much disturbance until they get their way. Sadly it's indicative of the society which has evolved.

That's true, and while I agree with confronting this sort of behaviour when it's useful to, when it risks distracting from something far more important it's not useful. As has unfortunately happened.

Rox

As the great Nigel Tufnel once said "What's wrong with being sexy?"

And, as much as I looked, I couldn't see a single woman on that shirt doing the ironing or cooking the dinner.  In fact, they rather looked like they could kick any man's ass.

Which is a whole different sphere of women being in charge...

robinbowes

Quick poll...

Here's a set of quotes from this thread:

• "harmless imagery of women in racey bondage gear"
  
• "idiotic opinions"
  
• "not at all offensive unless you have severe issues"
  
•  I hope some of the idiots see what they've achieved, and feel ashamed
  
• "pox on the twisted individuals who whined"
• "probably the women who complained are fat munters who are pissed off 'cos they don't look good in "racy bondage gear""
• "A big deal has been made out of nothing."
• "annoying that feminazis think they can go around changing things because they think they know better"
  
• "These hatchet faced bints"

How many of the people who have said these things are female?

R.

Iamnobody

It's a fucking awful shirt!

Anyone who chooses to wear such a monstrosity should expect to be ridiculed.

Playing the sexist card is a cheap shot though. It's just a shite shirt.

And for him to then cry about it afterwards...

The whole episode is a sorry mess.

robinbowes

Bidley said:

I think the idea that women are put off being involved in 'tech' by the clothes people wear is sexist in itself, no?

It's not specifically the clothes that are the problem here, rather the imagery. Also, he used inappropriate language in interviews.

R.

holnrew

Anybody with common sense wouldn't give it a second thought. At least it's giving some exposure to how ridiculous people can be when it comes to social (non-)issues.

Personally I would have worn a suit and tie because it looks better, but he's free to wear what he likes.

CloudNine

robinbowes said:

Bidley said:

I think the idea that women are put off being involved in 'tech' by the clothes people wear is sexist in itself, no?

It's not specifically the clothes that are the problem here, rather the imagery. Also, he used inappropriate language in interviews.

R.

I reckon the imagery is rather nice really. You telling me you wouldn't land your probe in one of those bondage birds?

Have to admit, it's not the kind of shirt you just throw on without thinking about though. You know what you are doing, and the potential impact, when you stroll out the door in that.