Paris shootings

mellowsun

VimFuego said:

ah, so you are saying you think it was a false flag event then.

No, I'm wondering, for example, whether there might be links with an external power that has an axe to grind. I have thoughts who that might be, but I'm not going to write it here.

Sambostar

 

I'm not suggesting this was a 'false flag', but just because the assailants say they are from Al Qaeda, is it that simple? Who else might benefit from the inevitable reprisals and other fallout following such an attack?

Gingers?

VimFuego

I would accept that there are external powers that would wish to cause instabilities in the West (Russia springs to mind), but I can't see them having any more or less success than an ISIS like (or "genuine" terrorist) organisation. But I don't buy the whole concept of a false flag event, at least not as it is normally described. I can see governments taking advantage of events like this to force through an agenda (and maybe even be a bit lax in some aspect that would allow and event like this to happen), but this whole thing of collusion between terrorist forces and the security forces, I don't buy that.

boogieman

Sambostar said:

Well religion aside, ain't much else to do this time of year but shoot people.

There's a time for humour, but frankly I don't think this is it. :-S

Sambostar

Well what can you do?  France has been more than generous in housing masses of illegal immigrants and Paris has been a shytehole for years.  That shooting of the injured police officer makes me want to take arms and track the feckers down and shoot them myself.  It's a dangerous world we live in and appeasement never works.  But hell, everything gets green algae and cracks up in the weather on it within a few months anyway.  Nothing is sacred, it is all connected in the grand scheme of things, so a few extra brains smeared on the pavement won't matter.

As citizens we are powerless to defend ourselves and this is the idea.

Because someone, whether high up on high, or just a nutter thought it so, people have died, the same as some righteous twat who thinks it's a good idea to use their mobile phone driving down the A road.

Forge

How can in this day and age people die for religion...? I am absolutely amazed

boogieman said:

Sambostar said:

Well religion aside, ain't much else to do this time of year but shoot people.

There's a time for humour, but frankly I don't think this is it. :-S

And let's not forget it's not about religion, it's about a minority imposing their medieval views by violence - they're no Jihadis but mere bullies, murderers and rapists fed with false promises of riches and fornication.

Sambostar

It is only twelve people, let's get some perspective, more than  that have been obliterated by a stray mortar shell.  You choose your government, you take responsibility for their actions.

Fretwired

mellowsun said:

Drew_fx said:

Every bit of news on the matter indiciates Islamic extremism is at hand. It's no stretch to connect that with the Caliphate. 

Seriously?

An eye witness said the men spoke perfect French and he thought that they were French. The gunmen also told a journalist that the attack was organised by Al-Qaeda in Yemen. The men appeared to have western style military training. They seemed to know the date and time of the editorial meeting at which all their targets would be present. The also seem to know Paris quite well and the normally efficient French Secret Service had no inkling an attack was imminent. You may have a point - these guys could be hired guns of some sort or radicalised French locals with a military background who've kept under the radar. AQ and Isil have access to shedloads of cash so buying the services of some unemployed mercenaries could be a new ploy.

Sambostar

So what is the bottom line then?  There are a load of bad intentioned, ego maniac's in power that don't necessarily have the people's best interests at heart and they are collaborating or infiltrating democracy?  Well....Doh.

Forge

Sambostar said:

It is only twelve people, let's get some perspective, more than  that have been obliterated by a stray mortar shell.  You choose your government, you take responsibility for their actions.

I can't agree with that, voting for someone does not imply you are to take responsibility for their actions. Also it is the symbol they are attacking...the freedom of expression. They may be only 12 people as you say but a few of them are figureheads in the media and publishing world. The message is sent here is clear.

Fretwired

Sambostar said:

So what is the bottom line then?  There are a load of bad intentioned, ego maniac's in power that don't necessarily have the people's best interests at heart and they are collaborating or infiltrating democracy?  Well....Doh.

Saudi Arabia funds and supports Al-Qaeda and Isil so it could be argued there's a government involved - @mellowsun is right in as much as this was not a normal attack - this was a pro hit from a small team of well armed Jihadists who had good intelligence on their targets and knowledge of Paris which indicates excellent planning. They also fled the scene. This doesn't follow the usual pattern seen in European attacks to date which is worrying.

Wolfetone

It's all very well 'showing solidarity' and all that but the damage to free speech has already been done. It would take a brave publication to continue slagging of the prophet after this.

Even people that post anti-muslim stuff on the net need to be careful if they are traceable....not good.

Sambostar

More to the point, how do you feel that your government has left you defenceless against mortal attack, with no police to be seen, 13 hour ambulance waiting times and no right to own a firearm, should you choose to exercise your right to free speech?

Anyway peace of mind and happiness is all about expectation, if you don't expect to make it through the night till tomorrow morning, it will be a bonus if you do, but no biggie if you don't.

Would be kind of ironic though if you lived for 12 hours awaiting an ambulance before finally suffering a mortal haemorrhage.

capo4th

Where is the footage of the people being blown away by these religious nuts?

Sambostar

Are you insinuating that they may have taken early retirement in secret?

guitargeek62

ITT: Nothing of note.

Sambostar

This is just part and parcel of globalisation, you take the good, you have to take the bad too, you can't have your cake and eat it.  What is so ironic is that pro Europe, central European, one world, government types are so shocked by the infringement of 'National' security on 'National' soil. 

Anywhere else in the world, no one would give two shites about this story.  Even though our very day to day existence depends on globalisation and exploitation.

Personally I find the unpaid security checks in American Amazon warehouses more morally repugnant.

fretmeister

Sambostar said:

This is just part and parcel of globalisation, you take the good, you have to take the bad too, you can't have your cake and eat it.  What is so ironic is that pro Europe, central European, one world, government types are so shocked by the infringement of 'National' security on 'National' soil. 

Anywhere else in the world, no one would give two shites about this story.  Even though our very day to day existence depends on globalisation and exploitation.

Personally I find the unpaid security checks in American Amazon warehouses more morally repugnant.

You find security checks more morally repugnant than murder over a satirical cartoon?

With a single submission you destroy your credibility in every single argument you ever have.

Sambostar

I don't have any credibility nor want for it.

Edit: At least when it comes to global politics, terrorism and murder.

Now I could tell a few things about plants that would be credible, incredible even.

But global terrorism, no idea mate, I really just make it up as I go along

hywelg

Wolfetone said:

It would take a brave publication to continue slagging of the prophet after this.

I would like to see every publication that is free to print what it likes, feature, on the front page ideally, cartoons disrespectful of all the major religions. With accompanying text along the lines, 'if you want to be free to believe the world was created by god 6000 years ago, then you have to allow us to be free to think you are crazy. You will not persecute us into believing in your god'.