Paris shootings

TinLip

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c41/a_million_underscores/Macros/n129753_I_dont_want_to_live_on_this_planet_anymore.jpg

axisus

There are some shit people in this world.

Drew_TNBD

See... the thing about being a freethinker is you can comfortably quote a far-right fascist when they do make a valid point without being a hypocrite. Here we go then, Marine Le Pen:

“Time’s up for denial and hypocrisy, the absolute rejection of Islamic fundamentalism must be proclaimed loudly and clearly.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-07/le-pen-may-benefit-as-magazine-attack-exposes-french-divisions.html

Bidley

Wolfetone said:

It would take a brave publication to continue slagging of the prophet after this.

A satirical German magazine have put on the front page of their website;

"Terror advice: At 4pm we will have a meeting with other newspapers, opportunity for you to kill everyone of the lying German press. There will be sandwiches afterwards"

http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2rmzlg/german_satirical_magazine_titanic_if_you_shoot_at/

Awesome. The link on the reddit thread is worth reading too.

Drew_TNBD

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/cartoon.jpg

PolarityMan

Drew_fx said:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/cartoon.jpg

Fuck you that reminds me of the void in my life that would be there if I didn't worship jebus. Prepare to die infidel!

Fretwired

Forge

This planet would be fine if it wasn't for those 10% fucksticks spoiling it for the rest. They don't have a particular background, education, ethnicity or religion...they just fucksticks.

Fretwired

The French security services have some questions to answer .... two of the assailants were brothers, born in Paris who are French nationals called Saïd and Cherif Kouachi, aged 34 and 32. Cherif was reportedly part of an Iraqi jihadi network dismantled in the nearby 19th arrondissement of Paris. He was sentenced to three years in prison with 18 months suspended in relation to terror charges in May 2008. The two brothers came back from fighting in Syria last summer. They should have been under surveillance but apparently were not.

VimFuego

Fretwired said:

The French security services have some questions to answer .... two of the assailants were brothers, born in Paris who are French nationals called Saïd and Cherif Kouachi, aged 34 and 32. Cherif was reportedly part of an Iraqi jihadi network dismantled in the nearby 19th arrondissement of Paris. He was sentenced to three years in prison with 18 months suspended in relation to terror charges in May 2008. The two brothers came back from fighting in Syria last summer. They should have been under surveillance but apparently were not.

hang on, you knew all this and instead of informing the security services you just sat back and watched it happen (in HD no doubt)? People like you make me sick.

imalone

Drew_fx said:

See... the thing about being a freethinker is you can comfortably quote a far-right fascist when they do make a valid point without being a hypocrite. Here we go then, Marine Le Pen:

“Time’s up for denial and hypocrisy, the absolute rejection of Islamic fundamentalism must be proclaimed loudly and clearly.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-07/le-pen-may-benefit-as-magazine-attack-exposes-french-divisions.html

You can comfortably quote lots of people on the subject of Islamic fundamentalism being a bad thing, you don't have to pick someone on the far right and doing so implies it's a view limited to them.

Anyway, pretty tragic. Je suis Charlie.

Fretwired

VimFuego said:

Fretwired said:

The French security services have some questions to answer .... two of the assailants were brothers, born in Paris who are French nationals called Saïd and Cherif Kouachi, aged 34 and 32. Cherif was reportedly part of an Iraqi jihadi network dismantled in the nearby 19th arrondissement of Paris. He was sentenced to three years in prison with 18 months suspended in relation to terror charges in May 2008. The two brothers came back from fighting in Syria last summer. They should have been under surveillance but apparently were not.

hang on, you knew all this and instead of informing the security services you just sat back and watched it happen (in HD no doubt)? People like you make me sick.

Sadly I don't speak fluent French and my crystal ball was being polished ...

Drew_TNBD

imalone said:

Drew_fx said:

See... the thing about being a freethinker is you can comfortably quote a far-right fascist when they do make a valid point without being a hypocrite. Here we go then, Marine Le Pen:

“Time’s up for denial and hypocrisy, the absolute rejection of Islamic fundamentalism must be proclaimed loudly and clearly.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-07/le-pen-may-benefit-as-magazine-attack-exposes-french-divisions.html

You can comfortably quote lots of people on the subject of Islamic fundamentalism being a bad thing, you don't have to pick someone on the far right and doing so implies it's a view limited to them.

I'm not sure that is true really.

Anyway, pretty tragic. Je suis Charlie.

Aye.

Wolfetone

I think that the right to offend must be upheld and maintained in a well balanced and civilised society. Saying that, there is also the matter of care and respect that should be shown to other humans in not willfully or unnecessarily upsetting others.

All of us have views on things and skillful good judgement needs to be shown to get a point across without causing unnecessary harm or offense.  

We could all go around drawing funny or offensive pictures of our neighbors and laugh among ourselves but, when the front door rings and you get the punch in the face as a result, you have to readjust your thinking somewhat. 

It's easy to to think that the world should think like us but sadly it doesn't. 

Drew_TNBD

Wolfetone said:

I think that the right to offend must be upheld and maintained in a well balanced and civilised society. Saying that, there is also the matter of care and respect that should be shown to other humans in not willfully or unnecessarily upsetting others.

All of us have views on things and skillful good judgement needs to be shown to get a point across without causing unnecessary harm or offense.  

We could all go around drawing funny or offensive pictures of our neighbors and laugh among ourselves but, when the front door rings and you get the punch in the face as a result, you have to readjust your thinking somewhat. 

It's easy to to think that the world should think like us but sadly it doesn't. 

Your two points are ... problematic:

- Right to offend must be upheld and maintained

- If you open your door and get punched in the face (metaphor for being bombed in this case) then change your thinking

sssoooooo... you don't have the right to offend and it shouldn't be upheld and maintained then? How do you address this inconsistency? Should people be dying because of the things they say? Personally I don't think they should - even if it is something I don't like.

randomhandclaps

It's simple - If your God is so certain that he's right why would a man in Paris having a laugh at his expense bother him?  If your God is so powerful and ultimately in control of the universe why did he need you to do he killing?  Acting violently in the name of religion just smacks of frailty of your own personal beliefs and an elementary deep mistrust of your own almighty God's ability to take care of business himself.  You aren't acting in the name of your God, you are elevating yourself above him.  It's seems futile for you and your kin to try and convince me of your God's existence and righteousness when you clearly lack the ultimate conviction yourself.

Fretwired

randomhandclaps said:

It's simple - If your God is so certain that he's right why would a man in Paris having a laugh at his expense bother him?  If your God is so powerful and ultimately in control of the universe why did he need you to do he killing?  Acting violently in the name of religion just smacks of frailty of your own personal beliefs and an elementary deep mistrust of your own almighty God's ability to take care of business himself.  You aren't acting in the name of your God, you are elevating yourself above him.  It's seems futile for you and your kin to try and convince me of your God's existence and righteousness when you clearly lack the ultimate conviction yourself.

I thought the attack was in revenge for insulting Mohammed who is a Prophet not God.

Drew_TNBD

randomhandclaps said:

It's simple - If your God is so certain that he's right why would a man in Paris having a laugh at his expense bother him?  If your God is so powerful and ultimately in control of the universe why did he need you to do he killing?  Acting violently in the name of religion just smacks of frailty of your own personal beliefs and an elementary deep mistrust of your own almighty God's ability to take care of business himself.  You aren't acting in the name of your God, you are elevating yourself above him.  It's seems futile for you and your kin to try and convince me of your God's existence and righteousness when you clearly lack the ultimate conviction yourself.

mmmmm... so they're really just closet atheists? Nah. Not buying it

Snap

mellowsun said:

Snap said:

three gunmen, armed to the hilt, shouting god is great, in arabic, I'm just saying

'They shot on Wolinski, Cabu... it lasted 5 minutes... I had hidden under my desk... they spoke French perfectly... they said they we're al-Qaeda.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11329976/Paris-Charlie-Hebdo-attack-live.html

So potentially home-grown terrorists?

they were outside shouting god is great in arabic, which is a signature statement made at nigh all of the islamic extremist atoricities, whether that be on video or otherwise. The fact that they could be french nationals doesn't detract from the likelihood that they are either AlQeeda or IS. I don't see what the nationality has to do with anything, in respect of this clearly being a targeted act against satirists of islam.

the issue is that these lunatics, under the justification banner of it being their god's will, can, and do, strike as they like and we (the non extremist majority) seem to be able to do very little to a) prevent it, and b) strangle their ideologies at birth and stop them developing under our own noses, and in "our own backyards" so to speak.

I suppose what is also surprising is that France has been at the forefront of not tolerating islam at it's more extreme ends, and was the first western nation to ban the full veil in public (with which I agree).

Whilst tolerance, acceptance and freedom of expression are the cornerstones of a civil society, it works both ways, and there is a fundamental problem in many western societies when it comes to integration of different cultures. Exacerbating this is that no goverment or political party is prepared to properly and honestly admit this. You go to any town or city with a large ethinic minority and you will see that if anything, division is greater now than ever before. That division is fertile ground for disenfranchisement and consequent extremism.

scrumhalf

I'm getting so pissed off that every time I hear a Muslim "community leader" of some sort on the radio or telly they bleat about how this will lead to a rise in Islamaphobia. There's a causal nexus here, chaps.

Oh, and if you are so passionate about tolerance of and respect for other people's religions, then you really need to address the matter with those countries that have Islamic governments. The filth that pours out of television stations in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Gaza, Syria and others isn't concerned with respecting other people's religions

He who comes to equity must come with clean hands. You want me to respect your beliefs? Respect mine.

Leaving aside the small fact that, as a Jew, I am not allowed to enter Saudi Arabia (wow, such respect for all religions, chaps) what would your reaction be to me in Saudi setting up a campaign to allow women to drive cars, or go out on their own? How would you react if, say, we bombed the fuck out of you because it's our way of doing things and you must accept our way of doing things or die, because we are offended if you don't?

I'm as angry as hell about the dual standards here.