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DesVegas

I dont want to start a shitstorm but i thought Drew was doing just fine..agree with Lixarto going for a break though

PolarityMan

What I don't like is the mods shutting down subsequent discussion about it.

DesVegas

I missed his Lixarto discussion

Hertz32

As long as we dont get mean about it or them, I presume it should be fine.

Genuine question; why is Lixarto on a break too? He had no part in the recent debacle aside from being the subject of Drew's outburst. Although I understand he has low level jibes on a regular basis. Was it just time he had some kind of repercussion for it?

PolarityMan

I think so and I think it's fair enough. Take a look at his comment history and tell me what he was really contributing to the forum other than snide remarks. I've said it before but it's a great shame he hadn't really engaged here as when he is on form he can be pretty witty.

jd0272

Hertz32 said:

As long as we dont get mean about it or them, I presume it should be fine.

Genuine question; why is Lixarto on a break too? He had no part in the recent debacle aside from being the subject of Drew's outburst. Although I understand he has low level jibes on a regular basis. Was it just time he had some kind of repercussion for it?

Dunno about Lix. Maybe he doesn't moisturise enough? Although one can't be sure from an avatar.

I think Andrew likes being banned, gives him more time to length the Mrs. Or not concentrate on lyrics? @Drew_FX doesn't offend me anyhoo, although I can see how he does rub other folk. Phnarr phnarr  

lloyd

Lix plays his part in this-He knows what he's doing....I get that they don't get on, I don't get why they don't just put each other on ignore and leave it at that?

I have no personal issue with either of them, they both goad each other but in very different ways....

Fortheloveofguitar

Lixarto should have been banned a long time ago.

Constantly antagonising other members with stupid comments trying to get a rise from people. Most ignored him anyway but he is very calculated with it.

Hertz32

Fair enough, not saying I disagree with the decision to put Lix on a break - infact, i think it's been overdue. - just wondering what prompted it now.

At any rate, I'm of the opinion that Drew adds more to the forum in knowledge terms than most and permanantly losing him would be a real shame. Although his behavior in OT and SC make things difficult for the Mods, whence the multiple suspensions etc.
Thing is, it's not like he can be banned from OT either, as it's a huge part of his time on the forum and we'd probably lose him anyway.

As for Lix, he's even trickier as he doesnt keep it to OT most of the time.

I don't envy the mods, you guys have a tough fucking time on here sometimes and I respect your decisions. Please, don't stop the good work - this is our special little part of the internet and I love it.

Hertz32

Fortheloveofguitar;493753" said:

Lixarto should have been banned a long time ago.

Constantly antagonising other members with stupid comments trying to get a rise from people. Most ignored him anyway but he is very calculated with it.

Banning is no fun for anyone, and it's just not how this place works.

As you say, most can ignore him and by and large its the best way to deal with it.

guitarfishbay

So it looks like both were banned under a flag limit violation. What is the limit? Edit - actually only reference to a limit is Monx's post about the Jew thread, the recent cooler stuff just refers to 'multiple'. Still, if there is a limit it would be good to know. 

PolarityMan

The flag limit is bullshit imho

Fortheloveofguitar

Hertz32;493764" said:

[quote="Fortheloveofguitar;493753"]Lixarto should have been banned a long time ago.

Constantly antagonising other members with stupid comments trying to get a rise from people. Most ignored him anyway but he is very calculated with it.

Banning is no fun for anyone, and it's just not how this place works.

[/quote]

Agreed, It's not nice at all when it happens.

Lixarto has got off far to lightly and for too long. Should have reined him in a long time ago. But he has been worse recently.

Branshen

I like drew. I find him endearing. Hope he comes back.

Hertz32

PolarityMan;493777" said:

The flag limit is bullshit imho

Really? I dont think it is.
It stops the moderators from being lenient when action is demanded.
I do believe the flag limit should be agreed upon by the forun as a whole though.

guitarfishbay

PolarityMan said:

The flag limit is bullshit imho

If there is a limit and mods defer to it then we have mob rule. I know they're dammed if they do and damned if they don't, but I personally think having banning be 'democratic' in such a way is unfair. This is because it allows those who complain loudest to have their way. In fact it makes them the only non modmin group with power, I don't flag so I guess I don't influence.

I'm discussing this in an abstract sense here, I missed the deleted threads so I can't comment on them. 

Emp_Fab

As far as I'm concerned, you can make up all the rules !  In fact, I'd rather you did ! (not just you personally, but the forum membership in general!).  You wouldn't believe how hard it was for us to try to compose a set of rules that would walk the very fine line between a) keeping the forum in order so the majority could enjoy a hassle-free experience and b) not being so heavy-handed that it pissed half the forum off.

If you want to instigate that discussion and find a consensus that everyone is happy with, then come back to the modmin team and say "this is what we want", we will be more than glad to serve your wishes.

However... you might get better odds of Nick Clegg becoming Prime Minister at the next election than you would for getting a consensus among the members on how the forum should be moderated !

thomasross20

I don't know what's going on

richardhomer

I may have got this wrong - but I believe Drew was on MR under another username and was banned when Lixarto was a mod - so I think there's a fairly long-running emnity.

I left because of a run in with Drew, which I felt the mods side-stepped in the early days of the forum. Since I've come back, my relationship with him has been better - but clearly pushing the envelope ('tell us about your Jewwy ways') is part of his make up.

I have no axe to grind with either him or Lixarto and I hope they both return and contribute positively. As my late father was very fond of telling me 'it takes all sorts to make a World'.

Continually looking for a fight is not big, or clever....

digitalscream

PolarityMan said:

What I don't like is the mods shutting down subsequent discussion about it.

That was, I think, the result of a misunderstanding. We've never shied away from discussion of moderation or the rules; I would hope that was obvious thus far.

Hertz32 said:

As long as we dont get mean about it or them, I presume it should be fine.

Genuine question; why is Lixarto on a break too? He had no part in the recent debacle aside from being the subject of Drew's outburst. Although I understand he has low level jibes on a regular basis. Was it just time he had some kind of repercussion for it?

Lixarto did have a hand in it - and, in fact, he's had a significant part to play every time Drew's been sent to the cooler. My understanding is that he's got a personal beef with him, but that should be between the two of them. Lixarto was warned about his passive-aggressive baiting last month and told - in absolutely clear terms - to stop it. He didn't, and Drew got pissed off with the fact that we hadn't done anything about it; the problem is that nobody flagged Lixarto's posts (at the time) so we didn't know what was going on. After Drew was sent to the cooler, suddenly people noticed what was going on and flagged them - as soon as we saw them, we determined that Lixarto had ignored our warning and broken the rules yet again, so...cooler.

PolarityMan said:

The flag limit is bullshit imho

No, it's not - there are over three thousand of you, and five of us modmins. For a start, we have to have a flagging system, because we can't possibly read over a thousand posts per day; we have real lives too. We also have to set some kind of guidelines to keep things consistent between us; if we were all moderating based on our personal feelings, this place would be a total disaster (incidentally, that's the reason Lixarto is no longer a moderator). We set the flag limit as a trigger for us to do something - even if that's just looking at it and deciding that it's not worth doing anything about. The threshold itself varies according to where it is and what the nature of the content is. 

However, the limit itself is just about the only part of the moderation process that we won't publish; the reason is that there are groups of people on the forum who have grudges about others on here, and if we publish the threshold they could collude to make that person hit the flag threshold on a regular basis...that wouldn't be fair. That may sound like totally childish behaviour, but they have tried...besides, look at what happened with the facepalms back at the start - we actually had several groups of people facepalm-stalking several entirely different targets. It was quite nuts.

In short, we're doing the best with the resources we have; largely-speaking it works absolutely fine, but there's always a human element involved and we never, ever take action like somebody going into the cooler without a proper discussion amongst ourselves first.

Does that help?

guitarfishbay

You can't please everyone. I just think deferring to a flag limit means you inevitably lean towards pleasing the people who complain, irrespective of the wishes of those who don't. Is there a flag limit? Or is it decided upon on a case by case basis?