Post here if you love Simply Red

Emp_Fab

OK, how would you do it then ?  What system would you have us use ?

...and if people don't complain, how on earth can we consider their wishes ?!!  Wonderful, sexy and handsome we all may be, but clairvoyance is kinda beyond us.

Fortheloveofguitar

Lixarto as a Mod?

Thank goodness that was knocked on the head.

digitalscream

To be absolutely, 100% clear on this...

WE ARE NOT SOULLESS AUTOMATONS. WE DON'T EVER DEFER TO A FLAG LIMIT.

The flag threshold triggers a discussion on action in the majority of cases, unless it's something that's blatantly better in Speakers' Corner (which can be reversed without consequence) or something illegal (which will usually result in one or more of us spending an hour or two of what's supposed to be family time editing idiotic posts so as to rectify the situation without destroying threads and thus attempting to avoid a days-long conversation comparing us to Hitler and his crew).

To prove that, the next person to accuse us of deferring to a flag limit is going to the cooler for a week, because I'm having a really shit month and I feel like it.

Happy?

DesVegas

Are the flaggers people who have been here for some time or are they brand new?

I think modders should be flagged of posts which may offend and judge for themselves if, and who it offends then act by leaving it there, deleting the comment and mailing the poster to say why it has been deleted and please dont do it again or deleting the whole thread. If the poster then continues to post what the mods deem offensive they should be banned for 1, 2, or 4 weeks.

I hope this is how it is now.

robinbowes

FWIW, I think you've got the balance about right. If you asked me, I'd say you were a bit too lenient if anything. Keep up the good work

R.

digitalscream

DesVegas said:

Are the flaggers people who have been here for some time or are they brand new?

Which ones? We get lots of people flagging stuff; there are some familiar faces, but it's by no means the same people over and over.

Then again...a lot of the people who complain in public about people's posts - the usual "I am offended, but the mods don't care" stuff - often point-blank refuse to use the flagging system when we PM them to suggest that might be a better way to go about things. In fact, that refusal often comes with a fistful of personal insults at the modmins for not pandering to their every wish.

To be perfectly frank, those people's complaints tend to get ignored...for obvious reasons, and because we don't have the manpower or the inclination to make that work.

DesVegas said:

I think modders should be flagged of posts which may offend and judge for themselves if, and who it offends then act by leaving it there, deleting the comment and mailing the poster to say why it has been deleted and please dont do it again or deleting the whole thread. If the poster then continues to post what the mods deem offensive they should be banned for 1, 2, or 4 weeks.

I hope this is how it is now.

Yes, you've basically just described our process.

Hertz32

Edit, cos Tired and slow

guitarfishbay

digitalscream said:

To be absolutely, 100% clear on this...

WE ARE NOT SOULLESS AUTOMATONS. WE DON'T EVER DEFER TO A FLAG LIMIT.

The flag threshold triggers a discussion on action in the majority of cases, unless it's something that's blatantly better in Speakers' Corner (which can be reversed without consequence) or something illegal (which will usually result in one or more of us spending an hour or two of what's supposed to be family time editing idiotic posts so as to rectify the situation without destroying threads and thus attempting to avoid a days-long conversation comparing us to Hitler and his crew).

To prove that, the next person to accuse us of deferring to a flag limit is going to the cooler for a week, because I'm having a really shit month and I feel like it.

Happy?

I didn't accuse anything. I asked, and my next posts were abstract to discuss it. Emp's post didn't clear anything up, and my next post was a reply to his. Your post which cleared it up happened while I was posting, so I didn't see it until after.

digitalscream

guitarfishbay said:

I didn't accuse anything. I asked, and my next posts were abstract to discuss it. Emp's post didn't clear anything up, and my next post was a reply to his. Your post which cleared it up happened while I was posting, so I didn't see it until after.

I wasn't aiming it specifically at you - sorry if I implied that. It does keep coming up, though, and I was trying to be absolutely unambiguous so that we don't have to keep answering the same question/comment over and over. That's all

Paul_C

I reckon that anyone involved in maintaining the site is welcome to do what they like, it being their forum.

Whilst any forum member is (I assume   ) free to offer their opinion, it carries no more weight than any other forum member's opinion, and no-one should expect this or any forum to run to their rules unless it happens to be theirs, nor should anyone demand that the Mods behave the way they want them to unless they are paying them very handsomely to do so. 

A fine example of this is the Ernie Ball forum, which runs to Big Poppa's rules and quite right too. If it was my forum it would run to my rules and while I might consider any protest, I'd still make the final decision, however distasteful (or daft) that might be to some.

The owners/mods/etc. have created a nice little forum and I for one bow down to them and their whims.

Hurrah!

guitarfishbay

Emp_Fab said:

OK, how would you do it then ?  What system would you have us use ?

...and if people don't complain, how on earth can we consider their wishes ?!!  Wonderful, sexy and handsome we all may be, but clairvoyance is kinda beyond us.

I'd ban spammers and proven scammers. Beyond this I would only move flame topics to SC. I'd also say any religious/war/politics threads have to go in SC from the start, to minimise mod interventions. Of course no posting porn etc, goes as a given as many read on work PCs. And no actions which cause liability (e.g. selling  fakes).

In all my time on the forum I've never flagged anything. I think this place is exceptionally balanced compared to other boards - and I think that is because of the people. All this talk of flagging and trying to ban people, expectation of action when someone is offended... It brings no happiness. If Drew or Lix get permabanned will the flaggers live happily ever after? I guess I don't understand the mindset of someone wanting someone else banned and maybe that is an issue which makes it difficult for me to see why - also I never read the thread(s?) that seem to have lead to this.

I have no reason to believe what I'd suggest would be better or worse but since you asked me I answered.

guitarfishbay

digitalscream said:

guitarfishbay said:

I didn't accuse anything. I asked, and my next posts were abstract to discuss it. Emp's post didn't clear anything up, and my next post was a reply to his. Your post which cleared it up happened while I was posting, so I didn't see it until after.

I wasn't aiming it specifically at you - sorry if I implied that. It does keep coming up, though, and I was trying to be absolutely unambiguous so that we don't have to keep answering the same question/comment over and over. That's all

No worries. I was clarifying just in case there was misunderstanding with what I was posting. 

holnrew

Omg the mods are like Hitler!!! Free the fretboard 2!!!!

stickyfiddle

I think the mods are doing a good job, in what is becoming a relatively big, and certainly busy forum. 

Both parties have been a pain lately, in very different ways, but both have been fairly equal in trying to wind the other up as far as I can tell, and neither have stopped after being told to wind it in, and it's a shame when it spills into other threads as it has regularly of late. Hopefully they can both grow up a bit, swallow some pride, and return to the useful contributions they're both fully capable of when they want to.

Deijavoo

I fail to see the point in SC when most of this epic battle of good and evil happens there, let's be honest it really isn't that bad.

mellowsun

I'd have just given these two kids a sandbox to play/fight in. Basically, a separate sub-forum that only they (and in future other posters that act in a similar way) and the mods can view and post in.

That way the main forums, visible to all, don't get polluted with all the childish nonsense.

Eventually, when they are done, they can ask the mods for permission to join the adults again. Or not, as the case may be.

chillidoggy

Having missed all the drama, I'm getting that both Drew and Lixarto have been suspended for a while.

The exchanges between the two were something that happens in real life, so I never paid much attention to them. And just as real life isn't sanitised, I hope the FB doesn't become so.

It's the same old story, though: Online you don't always get a real sense of what the other person is try to convey, hence there are quite a few subsequent apologies when things have been misconstrued between members. That appears not to be the case with Drew and Lix because they are clearly convinced that the other is a total bell-end, and that's probably not going to change anytime soon.

As for the mods, I suspect that there's plenty of outraged people loading bullets for them to fire, before returning into obscurity. A poisoned chalice is moderation, not something I would wish to do, nor be good at, but in the end it's up to the mods to do as they see fit.

VimFuego

IMO, there's no point in having a grudge if you ain't gonna hold onto it. Them's the best sort of grudge, the sort that eat away at you inside.

randomhandclaps

lloyd said:

Lix plays his part in this-He knows what he's doing....I get that they don't get on, I don't get why they don't just put each other on ignore and leave it at that?

This would seem like a sensible solution.  The problem being that despite having Drew on ignore, I assume that even if someone is on your ignore list you can still see discussions started by them and as a result it did not stop Lix posting abuse or baiting in threads by Drew that he could have just ignored as they were of no consequence to him.  Drew's reasoning for not simply putting Lix on ignore is that it means such digs can be made 'behind his back' so to speak and let's be honest most of Drew's issues start because he does everything out in the open.

The ignore button also doesn't solve the issue completely either as let's be honest Drew & Lix are not the only member to be on the end of their behaviour.  My single biggest issue with that relationship in particular is that I believe if you can't just ignore then move on.  I thought it's what grown-ups do.  I commented before that there are times when Drew and Emp have fought and said some pretty nasty things about each other but both have ultimately been big enough to move on.  Drew's behaviour and responses (especially like us all when under stress in the real world) range from unnecessary to completely out of line.  I have absolutely no doubt that he himself is fully aware of this.

On the night in question Drew was heading for a ban from his first post and I had told him such.  His only options was to rescind and apologise, not to Lix but to those who run the site (particularly Monq, Tony & Emp) on that night.  Unfortunately he had been goaded to a point where that was never going to happen.  I will say, and it follows on from the point above, That Emp particularly (despite their history) did his best to try and calm both Drew and the situation.  The problem with Drew's state of mind at that point is that like anyone who has ever complete seen red towards someone in the real world, he did not see those in the middle as friends of peacemakers but merely as obstacles in the way of what he felt needed settling.

Drew is under a lot of stress in the real world at the moment.  I don't put that out there as an excuse because it isn't, I put it as a point of reference. 

What inevitably lead to Saturday nights erm....'drama' shall we say was that a series of snipey comments or abuse had been building up over the last few weeks.  The straw crowbar that broke the camel's back was when yet again Lix raised his claim that Drew is solely responsible for one of the Fretboard founders Sporky leaving.  Personally I do not believe it is true and with complete credit to the admin team every time Lix has raised this they have actively quashed that claim.  To top trump this Lix claimed that the reason Bertie left was also due solely to Drew.  I have said before that people's reason for leaving is their own business and shouldn't be speculated or rumoured about.  As I used to interact a lot with Bertie I remember distinctly the events around the time he last posted and it had less the nothing to do with Drew.

Bertie was having a difficult time at that point in the real world to which we all offered our sympathies.  On one particular day he made a jibe at what he would have fully been aware was a tender spot for Frankus.   It may have been a joke gone wrong, it may have been a deliberate dig, who knows?  Frank then returned fire (so to speak).  TBH it was all pretty lightweight but something that day made Bertie feel "I don't need this now".  So in short Bertie's reason for leaving (or hopefully being on extended leave) was solely down to Bertie and solely his own business IMO.  I actually think for Lix to claim to have insider info on both and then flaunt it about the forum just to bait Drew is incredibly disrespectful to both Sporky and Bertie.  Dont' get me wrong Lix probably believes it as if he does speak to them his obsession seems to be bitching about Drew so he probably believes they share the same views.

Over the last few weeks Lix has also made several attempts to bait me for a reaction but to be honest after having my outburst about him I am bored with it so despite not having on my ignore list I choose not to acknowledge him as I can't be bothered a.) giving him a pedestal to preach from and b.) derailing every thread because he can't grow up.  This doesn't make me any better than Drew, just a bit older, more settled and a bit more road worn.  A few years ago I probably would have bitten fiercely on everything and have worked hard on that.  My brief stint on MR ended because Lix displayed exactly the same behaviour as here and when I questioned the appropriateness of it I was resoundingly informed that Lix was a mod.  His next stint of behaviour involved reading posts which I had chosen to retract or cancel (being younger, angrier and not particularly mentally well at the time.) and mocking them publically despite the content being quite serious.  Due to that I stepped away for a long time.  When this place opened I approached it as a fresh start.  With a completely different user name I restarted forum life and treated Lix with exactly the same respect as everyone else - as can be verified easily.  However that wasn't accounting for nothing changing the other side of the gulf. 

randomhandclaps

chillidoggy said:

As for the mods, I suspect that there's plenty of outraged people loading bullets for them to fire, before returning into obscurity. A poisoned chalice is moderation, not something I would wish to do, nor be good at, but in the end it's up to the mods to do as they see fit.

@chillidoggy - Not only are you spot on but anybody who saw events unfold would know that there wasn't even room for modmins to manoeuvre.  The fate was sealed by those involved and both are ultimately fortunate that a lenient stance was taken in the hope it might move this on rather than a permanent ban.

Secondly with regard to deletion on that thread (or threads), I can understand people's curiosity but believe me there was absolutely no gain to keeping it.  In summary Drew was clearly going for broke (which was only ending one way),  @Emp_Fab, @Monquixote and @TTony tried to calm the situation as did a few members, but the goading continued in both directions plus those in the middle took unnecessary abuse.  I doubt either party would feel proud about events and want to re-read them.  I appreciate there's still going to be those who feel "it shouldn't be deleted!" but that was it. 

TBH there wasn't even any creative bitching so after about an hour of it I went to bed and watched Breaking Bad knowing the inevitability I would wake up to.  I am loving Breaking Bad.  I don't know why it took me so long to get around to watching it.