Johnny Marr - is it just me ?

ToneControl

No disrespect to the man or his song writing, I just don't understand the profile he has as a player

Am I missing something?

 

Myranda

Well, I don't know who he is, so I guess I'm not very worshipful of him

martinw

No. Doesn't do it for me either.

Separately, but related, I can't stand The Beatles.

randomhandclaps

That's a bit of a strange question because if you respect his song writing then you would understand the respect he holds as a guitar player.  It is really a case of if you don't like The Smiths then you probably won't have given due time to hearing the things he does.

Take something 'simple' Johnny does and then try and do it.

Myranda

I like some of the hits by The Beatles... of course they did do a gazillion trillion albums so it's not surprising that one or two songs are rather catchy

ICBM

I liked his guitar playing in The Smiths and The The, but nothing he's done since - which makes me think he needs a strong songwriter to work with to get the best from his guitar playing. Without that I haven't liked either his songs or his playing really. Electronic was especially massively disappointing.

Myranda said:

I like some of the hits by The Beatles... of course they did do a gazillion trillion albums so it's not surprising that one or two songs are rather catchy

That's the other way round actually... their overall output wasn't huge - 12 albums, although many of the songs on the early ones are covers - but a very high proportion of their songs are classics. Quite likely higher than any other band, depending on how you define it all etc.

randomhandclaps

Electronic was always a let down for me, although a massive part of that is the fact that Bernard Sumner's voice feels like someone scratching my eardrums from the inside. 

ToneControl

randomhandclaps said:

That's a bit of a strange question because if you respect his song writing then you would understand the respect he holds as a guitar player.  It is really a case of if you don't like The Smiths then you probably won't have given due time to hearing the things he does.

Take something 'simple' Johnny does and then try and do it.

I have nothing against the guy, no axe to grind, I'm just puzzled why he appears on the front cover of Guitarist, when I have never heard anything that sounds special to me in his playing -  Is it any harder than imitating anyone else's style?

I would have thought Neil Young and JJ Cale are the least technical players I can think of who write great songs, and are very good to listen to, would be far harder to imitate

Even then, I would consider these 2 as composer/players with a lot of "feel",  rather than as accomplished guitarists

randomhandclaps

He could be considered a guitar based composer like the two you mention - that said Guitarist would put Neil Young on the cover in a flash.  He is technically a very accomplished player, he just doesn't tend to do the things we always expect of a recognised guitar icon.  The stuff he plays on The Smiths' albums especially is far more complex than it first appears and it's quite easy to assume that maybe some parts are layered. 

I would put Johnny Marr well in the category of players parts other guitarists say dismissively 'Yeah I can play that' and the proceed to fuck up. 

The other factor with Johnny Marr is that he created his own sound.  The Edge is technical incredibly limited in his style but regularly receive an iconic status for the 'Edge Sound'.  Nobody back then sounded like Johnny Marr.

ourmaninthenorth

I think he's a great guitarist. 

chillidoggy

I couldn't stand the over-opinionated twat that is Morrissey, and I never liked The Smiths, either. So until I read this thread I had no idea who Johnny Marr is, nor that some people worshipped him.

Whatever floats your boat.

ToneControl

randomhandclaps said:

He could be considered a guitar based composer like the two you mention - that said Guitarist would put Neil Young on the cover in a flash.  He is technically a very accomplished player, he just doesn't tend to do the things we always expect of a recognised guitar icon.  The stuff he plays on The Smiths' albums especially is far more complex than it first appears and it's quite easy to assume that maybe some parts are layered. 

I would put Johnny Marr well in the category of players parts other guitarists say dismissively 'Yeah I can play that' and the proceed to fuck up. 

The other factor with Johnny Marr is that he created his own sound.  The Edge is technical incredibly limited in his style but regularly receive an iconic status for the 'Edge Sound'.  Nobody back then sounded like Johnny Marr.

I agree with all that, I just think there's lots of less-celebrated players, also from top-selling bands who I would think had developed their own sound, and also demonstrated a larger variety of personal and widespread techniques. My personal opinion is that he often appears to have a position higher than I can understand in the shared league table in influence & greatness

To test my hypothesis: The first hit in my search for top English guitarists hit this: http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/list-of-the-day/the-25-best-british-electric-guitar-players.html

This puts Professor Marr ahead of Andy Summers (who I would put streets ahead in terms of the kind of stuff Johnny Marr plays), Phil Manzanera, Dr. Brian May, Peter Green, Rory Gallagher (hey I know he wasn't English), Peter Green, Peter Frampton. I would think these were all far more gifted and influential guitarists, with their own distinct styles 

Anyway this isn't something I lose sleep over, I just remembered I am puzzled about this

 

 

I do think, since we got to it, that a lot of very individual styles come from the personal technique limitations (both in singing and guitar playing): The Edge, Bob Dylan, etc... It's one of the great things about popular music that people who would fail any qualification assessment based hierarchy of musicianship (like you need to play classical for a job) can get to give us these individual styles

ToneControl

ourmaninthenorth said:

I think he's a great guitarist. 

he is, I think just not the 12th greatest guitarist this country has ever produced

Deadman

I think it depends on what genres of music you're into.

If you get an erection from watching the Joe Satrianis of the world with their one million notes in a minute playing style then you're less likely to appreciate Marr.

For me, it's obviously not about technical ability with him, it's about what he does with notes and how he adds to a chord in his own, unique style to get the sound just right. Not overly clever or technical, but it just sounds on the money.

It's very cliche to say 'Morrissey is a depressing twat' or 'Marr- I don't get the hype' in my opinion. I normally hear it from people who know fuck all about music. No disrespect to anyone on here mind.

dafuzz

Johnny Marr? J'en ai marre.

Deadman

Myranda said:

Well, I don't know who he is, so I guess I'm not very worshipful of him

You're kidding, right?

wibble

I've only ever liked the one song of his...

Shark_Eyes

dafuzz said:

Johnny Marr? J'en ai marre.

I always believed that's where he got his name from, but apparently it was because nobody could pronounce Maher, and the drummer from the buzzcocks had the same name.

Deadman

http://www.nme.com/news/the-smiths/73363

bertie

ToneControl said:

No disrespect to the man or his song writing, I just don't understand the profile he has as a player

Am I missing something?

 

nope,   quite agree.  Always puzzled me too

scrumhalf

Can't understand the adulation for him or The Smiths.

He's a competent guitarist, but everything I see or hear by their self-important vocalist makes me think "bell-end".