The Rugby Union Thread

digitalscream

While I'm obviously glad England won, those yellows are killing us.

The shocker for me is that Wales shipped a try in 15 minutes against a depleted team, five of those against 13 men, and all they came away with was a disrupted conversion. They need to sort that out - it's as though they're relying on surprise line breaks, and don't know how to pile on the pressure until the opposition cracks with players in the bin.

Arfashandi

fretmeister said:

“New Courtney” as my youngest calls him (Cunningham-South) needs to start. 

I don’t disagree. Great impact player but better still to soften the midfield in the first quarter 

snowblind

That conversion "charge down" was a fiasco. 

Wales: Let's amble over and knock the ball off the kicking tee.
England: Whhuuuuuuuaaaattttttt?

Is it just me or is it any time England face a team doing something creative ( I'm thinking back to the Italy game a couple of years back) they just seem to seize up and looking questioningly at the ref for some kind of direction?

I guess a win is a win (and there's no way that ball was held up - shocking decision) but I don't see Ireland looking at that game and seeing either side threatening to rob them of a grand slam.

koneguitarist

snowblind said:

That conversion "charge down" was a fiasco. 

Wales: Let's amble over and knock the ball off the kicking tee.
England: Whhuuuuuuuaaaattttttt?

Is it just me or is it any time England face a team doing something creative ( I'm thinking back to the Italy game a couple of years back) they just seem to seize up and looking questioningly at the ref for some kind of direction?

I guess a win is a win (and there's no way that ball was held up - shocking decision) but I don't see Ireland looking at that game and seeing either side threatening to rob them of a grand slam.

What’s the betting Finn Russell will catch them out with that catch and stop despite doing it against France and Wales. 

Offset

England?  An utter shit-show.  Indiscipline, mistakes and cluelessness.  AGGGGH.

VimFuego

missed the first half (stupid patient making stupid shift overrun) but second half, whilst we won it, didn't look convincing. I accept that there will be hiccups with the new defensive system and even the attacking pattern, what really concerned me was we didn't look like we were dominating the opposition, we just never looked in control. Still, a win is a win, you take what you can I guess.

rsvmark

I’m not clear whether or not I just paid £117 for a shit view when perhaps once or twice there was a real possibility a game of rugby Might have broken out.

To confirm, I did. 

digitalscream

snowblind said:

That conversion "charge down" was a fiasco. 

Wales: Let's amble over and knock the ball off the kicking tee.
England: Whhuuuuuuuaaaattttttt?

Is it just me or is it any time England face a team doing something creative ( I'm thinking back to the Italy game a couple of years back) they just seem to seize up and looking questioningly at the ref for some kind of direction?

I guess a win is a win (and there's no way that ball was held up - shocking decision) but I don't see Ireland looking at that game and seeing either side threatening to rob them of a grand slam.

I'm inclined to go with Mr Wilkinson on that one - Ford hadn't actually started his approach, because stepping sideways (by definition) means that he didn't approach the ball...in fact, he actually got further away from it. So...I think the team can be forgiven for a "WTF, ref?" moment there.

More concerning for everybody is that the TMO has set a precedent of "If you can't see the bit of grass the ball is touching, even though it's obvious there is nothing beneath the ball and it's touching the ground from everything else around it, then there is no try".

Essentially, if the cameras' view of the actual ground the ball is on is obscured, like 90% of all the tries that have ever been scored by the pack, a try should not be given.

Either that, or the TMO in question should be fired.

TJT1979

Yes yes yes. The whole "on field decision" thing is crap. If the ref can't see, why make a preliminary decision!?!?

fretmeister

It was a try. Clear as day.

However I have Scottish family I don’t like so I’m thrilled beyond reason!  

bertie

do they not still have the options

"on field decision is try, any reason why I cannot award it?"

"on field decision no try/cant see, can you check the grounding/any other possibility"

drofluf

I think the problem is the on-field referee makes a decision and then has it validated. If instead they said I couldn’t see either way can I have a review they could go into it in a more open minded way. They already do this with the bench review of yellow cards and decisions have been overturned when the TMO notices something the referee has missed. 

digitalscream

The stupid part is that the ref saw the video and changed his mind, then the TMO said "nope".

pigface

digitalscream said:

The stupid part is that the ref saw the video and changed his mind, then the TMO said "nope".

The TMO said to the ref 'there is the ball on the ground' which, I think, prompted the ref to say that he was going to change his decision. The TMO then decided to view it again and suddenly it was 'not conclusive'. The TMO screwed it up, IMO.

bertie

pigface said:

digitalscream said:

The stupid part is that the ref saw the video and changed his mind, then the TMO said "nope".

The TMO said to the ref 'there is the ball on the ground' which, I think, prompted the ref to say that he was going to change his decision. The TMO then decided to view it again and suddenly it was 'not conclusive'. The TMO screwed it up, IMO.

is that the "Interfering Match Official" 

 thankfully,  the French won.................... I have French ancestry

in other news...........

as a semi chiefs fan (have to divide my loyalties betwixt the motherland and residential location ) , I have to finally admit I think Slade has now confirmed   he's no longer an international challenger.  When is Lawrence fit again ?  Like to see him with Dingbat,  and as much as I think he got an unfair bad press on here, I think Underwood has finally lived up to Gassage's nick-name for him. Id want to see a back row squad of  Curry, Earl, Cunningham whatsit, Root on the bench

cant see it happening,  in a light year of Sundays,  but "come on the Azzurri"    -  any score predictions ?

fretmeister

I’d love Italy to win.
It would be hilarious.

digitalscream

pigface said:

digitalscream said:

The stupid part is that the ref saw the video and changed his mind, then the TMO said "nope".

The TMO said to the ref 'there is the ball on the ground' which, I think, prompted the ref to say that he was going to change his decision. The TMO then decided to view it again and suddenly it was 'not conclusive'. The TMO screwed it up, IMO.

Maybe, but the ref runs the game - it's spelled out clearly in the rules, the ref can override the TMO at any point.

Ultimately, though, the point is that's two tries in two games on a single day where the TMO was utterly ineffective and in both cases, the ref and TMO agreed that it was a try and then changed their minds. Didn't make a direct difference to the result in the England game, but for France v Scotland it decided the match...and, if Ireland lose a game, it could end up deciding the championship.

Something needs to change here, even if it's just teaching the TMOs how physics works.

koneguitarist

Ref the Ford conversion, referee was right. This is the difference between knowing the laws and updates as opposed to just blindly going along with what you’ve always done. Macaw was a master and often talked to ref where ref was going wrong! 

Wales are in complete meltdown and disarray as a team. 

1.Promising players leaving for more money and then excluded falling foul of cap rule. 
2. Two many retirements at once.
3. too many injuries for such a small squad, Faletau, Tsiunza, Lake, Morgan.
4. Players leaving for last big paydays before retirement and taking a year out or even leaving Rugby altogether.
5. Regions are two too many, no money, no backing from WRU, no set plan on how to stop the rot.
so to lose both opening games by a total of 3 points is quite lucky I feel. Both were games we could have won, maybe not deserved but could have. 

Ireland will be the test of where we truly are and will be same test for England. 

If we don’t get the wooden spoon this year, I will be taking that as a win. 

sev112

koneguitarist said:

Ref the Ford conversion, referee was right. This is the difference between knowing the laws and updates as opposed to just blindly going along with what you’ve always done. Macaw was a master and often talked to ref where ref was going wrong! 

Wales are in complete meltdown and disarray as a team. 

1.Promising players leaving for more money and then excluded falling foul of cap rule. 
2. Two many retirements at once.
3. too many injuries for such a small squad, Faletau, Tsiunza, Lake, Morgan.
4. Players leaving for last big paydays before retirement and taking a year out or even leaving Rugby altogether.
5. Regions are two too many, no money, no backing from WRU, no set plan on how to stop the rot.
so to lose both opening games by a total of 3 points is quite lucky I feel. Both were games we could have won, maybe not deserved but could have. 

Ireland will be the test of where we truly are and will be same test for England. 

If we don’t get the wooden spoon this year, I will be taking that as a win. 

Pleas explain why you think the ref was right? What part of stepping to the side is “approaching” the ball.  If it is any movement, then he had better hold his breath and make sure his chest doesn’t move ?!  Terrible decision , not even a legal basis under the laws,  

Rocker

Why the fuck did he not simply kick the ball between the posts and get on with the game?