The Rugby Union Thread

Gassage

My thoughts from a very windy Dublin!

The Top Line

Ireland put in yet another masterclass of total rugby as they saw off Italy 36-0 in Dublin in a match that was little more than a training run for Andy Farrell’s men.

Tries from Jack Crowley (7') Dan Sheehan (23')(49') Jack Conan (36') James Lowe (61') and Calvin Nash (77') showed just how impressive Ireland were with ball in hand and save for a poor performance from Crowley off the tee and a couple of disallowed tries, the scoreline might have been even more crushing for the Azzurri who struggled to get any form of foothold into the match.

With James Lowe grabbing player of the match in an impressive all-round display a word must go to the Irish defence who nilled Italy for the first time in a Six Nations match, testimony to the crushing pressure that the loose forwards and rush defence exerted in a sumptuous 80 minutes of green excellence.

With a near flawless setpiece and a deep dive into the options available to Ireland this was a performance that would have thrilled the Irish coaching staff and given them a lot of food for thought in terms of the depth of their squad.

Relentless

At the heart of the Irish win was the speed of ruck ball. Italy chose to keep men out of the contest and spread wide in primary defence and as a result, the Irish half-backs had an armchair ride in terms of possession and speed of ball.

The number of options they created with cutback passes and the ability to offer an attacking option either side the ball carrier saw them consistently create multiple threats always with a numerical advantage. With huge courage to play a space-based game no matter where they were on the pitch the confidence they have with ball in hand is quite remarkable. It’s a team-based thing- with even front row forwards such as Andrew Porter and the outstanding Finlay Bealham comfortable enough on the ball to whip out cut back and miss passes to their eager and powerful backline.

Jack Crowley is maturing into a wonderful test ten and whilst he’s not yet been fully tested in a tight game his poise and ability to bring power runners into the channels off short passes is quite exceptional; his work with centre Robbie Henshaw caused Italy no end of issues and the powerful Lion 13 was at the centre of everything good that Farrell’s men created as he once again had a match to remember.

Set Piece Flourishes

With the chaos Ireland created with ball in hand and with their running options either side, you’d hope that Italy had one crumb of comfort, but their setpiece was absolutely reamed at both scrumtime and in the lineout.

Italy lost six of their own throws as Ireland, boasting five primary lineout options, simply threw everyone up in competition knowing they had again a numerical mismatch in the number of catchers they had in their armoury. With Italy not helping themselves by offering mainly static jumps against the fluid Irish athletes, it really was a case of the hosts almost picking the Italian throw off at will in a day where the Azzurri only managed a 55% completion.

The scrum wasn’t much better either. Andrew Porter, a man that’s come under intense scrutiny for perceived illegality under pressure had a much better day at the office, staying much squarer and straighter in setup and in drive. On the other side of the scrum, Finlay Bealham proved that he’s pushing the great Tadhg Furlong all the way in terms of first choice selection and it’s fair to say he’s been by far the better scrummager of the two this season, with some good judges of the dark arts suggesting that his extra height over Furlong allows him to work better with the enormous Dan Sheehan on engagement.

Italy got a little more reward when their bench came on but by that time it was all too little too late and Ireland’s tally of 12 ‘turnovers’ in scrum and lineout demonstrated once more the completeness of this Irish team.

Exploration of Depth

Andy Farrell is learning a lot about the reserve strength he has at his disposal. Already this season we’ve seen Crowley carry on where Johnny Sexton left off and the young ten looks as if he’s to the manor born in terms of test rugby.

We’ve already mentioned Bealham but the Irish back five stocks in the pack are at newfound heights. James Ryan was a Lions shoo-in six months ago, but the excellence of McCarthy might see him relegated to a bench option when Ireland selects their first 15. At eight, Jack Conan reminded us all that he’s one of the hardest and most direct carriers in the world as he delivered a masterclass from the base, whilst on the blindside Ryan Baird again put in a performance that will have the current skipper Peter O’Mahony looking over his shoulder in terms of selection.

In the backline Calvin Nash completed an industrious day for the young wing by hammering over for Ireland’s last try as Jamison Gibson-Park came on and took the excellence shown by Craig Casey to even new heights and even Stuart McCloskey, almost a forgotten man of the Irish midfield, reminded the selectors he’s able to do a job when and if required.

It's really now a case of how does Farrell squeeze all of this talent into a test match 23 and it’s certain there will be a few disappointed men when the team to play Wales is announced in ten days’ time.

Italian woes

It’s hard to think of one single thing that went right for Italy or a time where they really managed to put together a period of sustained pressure.

They might be moderately pleased with the way their scramble defence reacted to the wave of Irish runners and it’s fair to say that had they not worked so hard in this aspect the scoreline may well have been much worse. But the reason their primary and secondary defence had so much work was the fact that Italy completely abdicated challenge at rucktime, a tactic that meant they were always on their heels in defence.

With a wonderfully talented backline Italy simply must find a way of feeding their carriers. That means an overhaul of their tight five in order that they can win a degree of possession to use. And alongside that, they must find a way of exiting successfully under pressure to positions on the pitch where they can get some form of foothold.

Rather like Wales yesterday, the speed of the Irish blitz line, unfettered by ruck or breakdown challenge, made the Azzurri half backs crab deeper and deeper, so that even clearing box kicks were rendered uncontestable since they had no player available onside that was able to make the metres legally to challenge.

Italy have so much to offer with their threequarters and back three, but like the match against England in Rome last week, until their forwards man up in the close exchanges and setpiece, we’re unlikely to see those players deliver their undoubted potential.

 

bertie

Rocker said:

Why the fuck did he not simply kick the ball between the posts and get on with the game?

because every kicker has their prep routine,  whether its from the touchline or in front of the posts,   Biggar, Sexton, Wilkinson, Carter................... etc etc  -  none of em just "ran up and kicked it"

crunchman

bertie said:

Rocker said:

Why the fuck did he not simply kick the ball between the posts and get on with the game?

because every kicker has their prep routine,  whether its from the touchline or in front of the posts,   Biggar, Sexton, Wilkinson, Carter................... etc etc  -  none of em just "ran up and kicked it"

It was also during the period when England only had 13 players on the pitch.  Milking the shot clock as much as possible was what any team would do in that circumstance.

bertie

crunchman said:

bertie said:

Rocker said:

Why the fuck did he not simply kick the ball between the posts and get on with the game?

because every kicker has their prep routine,  whether its from the touchline or in front of the posts,   Biggar, Sexton, Wilkinson, Carter................... etc etc  -  none of em just "ran up and kicked it"

It was also during the period when England only had 13 players on the pitch.  Milking the shot clock as much as possible was what any team would do in that circumstance.

cant milk it any more than 60 seconds !!!

elstoof

He’d been stood still for 20 seconds before the side step, safe to assume he’s able to line himself up before that 

bertie

at the end of the day,  we won, the welsh didnt  so it doesnt matter.  The ref, generally was appalling tho

sev112

And both Jonathan Davies and Nigel Owens saying that the Welsh penalty try and yellow card were both wrong too.  Can’t get more unbiased than that .

koneguitarist

sev112 said:

koneguitarist said:

Ref the Ford conversion, referee was right. This is the difference between knowing the laws and updates as opposed to just blindly going along with what you’ve always done. Macaw was a master and often talked to ref where ref was going wrong! 

Wales are in complete meltdown and disarray as a team. 

1.Promising players leaving for more money and then excluded falling foul of cap rule. 
2. Two many retirements at once.
3. too many injuries for such a small squad, Faletau, Tsiunza, Lake, Morgan.
4. Players leaving for last big paydays before retirement and taking a year out or even leaving Rugby altogether.
5. Regions are two too many, no money, no backing from WRU, no set plan on how to stop the rot.
so to lose both opening games by a total of 3 points is quite lucky I feel. Both were games we could have won, maybe not deserved but could have. 

Ireland will be the test of where we truly are and will be same test for England. 

If we don’t get the wooden spoon this year, I will be taking that as a win. 

Pleas explain why you think the ref was right? What part of stepping to the side is “approaching” the ball.  If it is any movement, then he had better hold his breath and make sure his chest doesn’t move ?!  Terrible decision , not even a legal basis under the laws,  

“If player moves in any direction to start his approach”
sideways even backwards. 

That’s the law, not moving forward. 

koneguitarist

bertie said:

at the end of the day,  we won, the welsh didnt  so it doesnt matter.  The ref, generally was appalling tho

Yep, some decisions against England and some against Wales. Terrible reffing, we didn’t pay him all that money to ref us!  ;-)

sev112

koneguitarist said:

sev112 said:

koneguitarist said:

Ref the Ford conversion, referee was right. This is the difference between knowing the laws and updates as opposed to just blindly going along with what you’ve always done. Macaw was a master and often talked to ref where ref was going wrong! 

Wales are in complete meltdown and disarray as a team. 

1.Promising players leaving for more money and then excluded falling foul of cap rule. 
2. Two many retirements at once.
3. too many injuries for such a small squad, Faletau, Tsiunza, Lake, Morgan.
4. Players leaving for last big paydays before retirement and taking a year out or even leaving Rugby altogether.
5. Regions are two too many, no money, no backing from WRU, no set plan on how to stop the rot.
so to lose both opening games by a total of 3 points is quite lucky I feel. Both were games we could have won, maybe not deserved but could have. 

Ireland will be the test of where we truly are and will be same test for England. 

If we don’t get the wooden spoon this year, I will be taking that as a win. 

Pleas explain why you think the ref was right? What part of stepping to the side is “approaching” the ball.  If it is any movement, then he had better hold his breath and make sure his chest doesn’t move ?!  Terrible decision , not even a legal basis under the laws,  

“If player moves in any direction to start his approach”
sideways even backwards. 

That’s the law, not moving forward. 

“Approach” which is defined as moving towards 

TJT1979

My understanding is that NZR specifically asked for a clarification of the rules a few years back. This is when they added the specific wording "in any direction". 

koneguitarist

sev112 said:

sev112 said:

koneguitarist said:

sev112 said:

koneguitarist said:

Ref the Ford conversion, referee was right. This is the difference between knowing the laws and updates as opposed to just blindly going along with what you’ve always done. Macaw was a master and often talked to ref where ref was going wrong! 

Wales are in complete meltdown and disarray as a team. 

1.Promising players leaving for more money and then excluded falling foul of cap rule. 
2. Two many retirements at once.
3. too many injuries for such a small squad, Faletau, Tsiunza, Lake, Morgan.
4. Players leaving for last big paydays before retirement and taking a year out or even leaving Rugby altogether.
5. Regions are two too many, no money, no backing from WRU, no set plan on how to stop the rot.
so to lose both opening games by a total of 3 points is quite lucky I feel. Both were games we could have won, maybe not deserved but could have. 

Ireland will be the test of where we truly are and will be same test for England. 

If we don’t get the wooden spoon this year, I will be taking that as a win. 

Pleas explain why you think the ref was right? What part of stepping to the side is “approaching” the ball.  If it is any movement, then he had better hold his breath and make sure his chest doesn’t move ?!  Terrible decision , not even a legal basis under the laws,  

“If player moves in any direction to start his approach”
sideways even backwards. 

That’s the law, not moving forward. 

“Approach” which is defined as moving towards 

“Approach” which is defined as moving towards 

TJT1979 said:

My understanding is that NZR specifically asked for a clarification of the rules a few years back. This is when they added the specific wording "in any direction". 

Exactly, despite England not knowing the law change, other teams did.

digitalscream

koneguitarist said:

Exactly, despite England not knowing the law change, other teams did.

I'm yet to be convinced. What you're describing is this:

"All players retire to their goal line and do not overstep that line until the kicker moves in any direction prior to beginning their approach to kick"

What it actually says is this:

"All players retire to their goal line and do not overstep that line until the kicker moves in any direction to begin their approach to kick"

That implies intent. If the kicker did not intend to begin their approach, then the opposition should stay behind the line.

Now, what I'm guessing is that the Welsh team had a word with the ref before the match (as often happens), and asked if he'd see it as OK because they've noticed that Ford takes that additional step to the side. It's pretty poor sportsmanship, to be honest, and not really in the spirit of the game.

bertie

koneguitarist said:

bertie said:

at the end of the day,  we won, the welsh didnt  so it doesnt matter.  The ref, generally was appalling tho

Yep, some decisions against England and some against Wales. Terrible reffing, we didn’t pay him all that money to ref us!  ;-)

yes,  playing against 13 for 8 minutes rather than 14 for most of the match must be hard

I genuinely thought, after not scoring with that early pressure, and then the penalty try, we were in for a mauling.

What was "amusing" was reading the individual player scores /10 in different papers    same player could get 9/10 in one and 5/10 in another.................

fretmeister

bertie said:

koneguitarist said:

bertie said:

at the end of the day,  we won, the welsh didnt  so it doesnt matter.  The ref, generally was appalling tho

Yep, some decisions against England and some against Wales. Terrible reffing, we didn’t pay him all that money to ref us!  ;-)

yes,  playing against 13 for 8 minutes rather than 14 for most of the match must be hard

I genuinely thought, after not scoring with that early pressure, and then the penalty try, we were in for a mauling.

What was "amusing" was reading the individual player scores /10 in different papers    same player could get 9/10 in one and 5/10 in another.................

That amuses me too.

I can usually tell when a journo is really trying to not pick on their mates.

Gassage

bertie said:

koneguitarist said:

bertie said:

at the end of the day,  we won, the welsh didnt  so it doesnt matter.  The ref, generally was appalling tho

Yep, some decisions against England and some against Wales. Terrible reffing, we didn’t pay him all that money to ref us!  ;-)

yes,  playing against 13 for 8 minutes rather than 14 for most of the match must be hard

I genuinely thought, after not scoring with that early pressure, and then the penalty try, we were in for a mauling.

What was "amusing" was reading the individual player scores /10 in different papers    same player could get 9/10 in one and 5/10 in another.................

Interesting you say this- we publish this particularly for this reason....

bertie

@Gassage ;  not sure who does the reporting for the Grauniad,  but they were a mile away from most other reports,  Im not sure if they actually watched the game

fretmeister

Ruck definitely don't watch it - they got caught using AI to write their articles and then blocked everybody who mentioned it.

Gassage

fretmeister said:

Ruck definitely don't watch it - they got caught using AI to write their articles and then blocked everybody who mentioned it.

Amazingly they have employed a young reporter (tom) who was there on Sat.

He does have a 'man bun' though.....

ewal

Thought this was a good article. And no, not because I support Scotland, more the way rules are being interpreted and the TMOs forensic examination of multiple angles accompanied by referee looking for a form of words which complies with the laws of the game.

Not quite the farce that VAR has become in football, but getting there.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/feb/11/scotland-france-try-rugby-union-six-nations?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other