EU Referendum Vote - Poll

ToneControl

UnclePsychosis said:

@icbm - absolutely spot on. The only reason to be angry about more people being allowed to vote is because you're not interested in democracy.

Seriously, imagine being pathetic enough to be angry about attempting to maximise turnout.

I'm annoyed at the corruption

UnclePsychosis

Crikey, it's *immoral* to extend voter registration?

Really? It's immoral to try and make sure that the forthcoming referendum represents the views of as many Brits as possible?

It's in everyone's interests that the the result is as decisive and representative as possible.

ICBM

ToneControl said:

of course I don't want everyone to vote, just ones who want Brexit, 

Interesting. (I'm assuming this isn't sarcasm?)

I want everyone to vote.

Because I want such an important decision regarding our future to be decided by a true majority of the electorate, not simply the larger minority.

For what it's worth I felt the same about the Scottish referendum. I wasn't that happy that the decision to leave the UK could have been taken by a minority of the electorate.

ToneControl said:

I'm saying that if polls indicated that the "leave" supporters were late to register, that no extension would have been given

& I'm saying  that extending it by 2 days when the "IT glitch" was for less than 2 hours is disproportionate

You may be right, but for the wrong reason. I would support any means of increasing the number of people who can vote, from whichever side, for any reason, and for any time while it's practical for their vote to be counted.

Because if you think that it's a good thing for people who don't vote the way you want to be excluded on a technicality, then you don't believe in democracy.

UnclePsychosis

The dishonesty about the £350m comes back to bite Vote Leave on the arse with a high profile defection as a result.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36485464

Tory MP Sarah Wollaston has quit the campaign to leave the EU and will vote for Remain instead, she told the BBC.

Dr Wollaston, chairman of the health select committee, said Vote Leave's claim that Brexit would free up £350m a week for the NHS "simply isn't true".

She told the BBC she did not feel comfortable being part of the campaign.

...the Totnes MP, who is a GP, said: "For someone like me who has long campaigned for open and honest data in public life I could not have set foot on a battle bus that has at the heart of its campaign a figure that I know to be untrue.

"If you're in a position where you can't hand out a Vote Leave leaflet, you can't be campaigning for that organisation."

ToneControl

ICBM said:

ToneControl said:

of course I don't want everyone to vote, just ones who want Brexit, 

Interesting. (I'm assuming this isn't sarcasm?)

of course it's me being flippant

All political parties always try to manipulate this

The Labour party goes out and offers to drive potential voters to the polling stations in every election in every constituency.

If you express any opinion to those people who want to take your details at the polling station, then at the next election they come round your house to ensure you turn out to vote (assuming you support them)

Voting and politics is a sleazy business, and this is just another example of it, please don't try to dress it up as virtuousness on the part of the govt (i.e. the remain campaign)  

Phil_aka_Pip

UnclePsychosis said:

The dishonesty about the £350m comes back to bite Vote Leave on the arse with a high profile defection as a result.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36485464

Tory MP Sarah Wollaston has quit the campaign to leave the EU and will vote for Remain instead, she told the BBC.

Dr Wollaston, chairman of the health select committee, said Vote Leave's claim that Brexit would free up £350m a week for the NHS "simply isn't true".

She told the BBC she did not feel comfortable being part of the campaign.

...the Totnes MP, who is a GP, said: "For someone like me who has long campaigned for open and honest data in public life I could not have set foot on a battle bus that has at the heart of its campaign a figure that I know to be untrue.

"If you're in a position where you can't hand out a Vote Leave leaflet, you can't be campaigning for that organisation."

If we followed her logic we'd be flipping back & forth between the 2 sides every time we discovered a bit of dishonesty

ToneControl

Phil_aka_Pip said:

UnclePsychosis said:

The dishonesty about the £350m comes back to bite Vote Leave on the arse with a high profile defection as a result.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36485464

Tory MP Sarah Wollaston has quit the campaign to leave the EU and will vote for Remain instead, she told the BBC.

Dr Wollaston, chairman of the health select committee, said Vote Leave's claim that Brexit would free up £350m a week for the NHS "simply isn't true".

She told the BBC she did not feel comfortable being part of the campaign.

...the Totnes MP, who is a GP, said: "For someone like me who has long campaigned for open and honest data in public life I could not have set foot on a battle bus that has at the heart of its campaign a figure that I know to be untrue.

"If you're in a position where you can't hand out a Vote Leave leaflet, you can't be campaigning for that organisation."

If we followed her logic we'd be flipping back & forth between the 2 sides every time we discovered a bit of dishonesty

She's been bought, I assume

Promised some future promotion I expect

ToneControl

This is more enlightening than petty arguments about who is telling the most lies (i.e. the remain campaign):

http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/gisela_stuart_exposes_the_risks_of_staying_in_the_eu

Gisela Stuart - A German-born UK MP, who was in Brussels working on what became the Lisbon treaty

desribes how anti-democratic the EU is, and why we should leave

She's not been keen on being the public face of Brexit, but it would be better if she had.

I defy anyone to contradict her conclusions in the speech within the link

The only motives I can see for remain is a woolly idea about togetherness with Europe, as if it proves one's liberal and cosmopolitan outlook, or vested interests for those who feed at the EU funding trough (as I have done myself on at least 4 projects- believe me, they throw a lot of cash around)

eSully

ToneControl said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

UnclePsychosis said:

The dishonesty about the £350m comes back to bite Vote Leave on the arse with a high profile defection as a result.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36485464

Tory MP Sarah Wollaston has quit the campaign to leave the EU and will vote for Remain instead, she told the BBC.

Dr Wollaston, chairman of the health select committee, said Vote Leave's claim that Brexit would free up £350m a week for the NHS "simply isn't true".

She told the BBC she did not feel comfortable being part of the campaign.

...the Totnes MP, who is a GP, said: "For someone like me who has long campaigned for open and honest data in public life I could not have set foot on a battle bus that has at the heart of its campaign a figure that I know to be untrue.

"If you're in a position where you can't hand out a Vote Leave leaflet, you can't be campaigning for that organisation."

If we followed her logic we'd be flipping back & forth between the 2 sides every time we discovered a bit of dishonesty

She's been bought, I assume

Promised some future promotion I expect

Opportunism or bullshit, something about her change of heart doesn't quiet ring true. It seems like a reasonable feeble reason to completely change your opinion on such a massive subject!

Fretwired

UnclePsychosis said:

The dishonesty about the £350m comes back to bite Vote Leave on the arse with a high profile defection as a result.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36485464

Tory MP Sarah Wollaston has quit the campaign to leave the EU and will vote for Remain instead, she told the BBC.

Dr Wollaston, chairman of the health select committee, said Vote Leave's claim that Brexit would free up £350m a week for the NHS "simply isn't true".

She told the BBC she did not feel comfortable being part of the campaign.

...the Totnes MP, who is a GP, said: "For someone like me who has long campaigned for open and honest data in public life I could not have set foot on a battle bus that has at the heart of its campaign a figure that I know to be untrue.

"If you're in a position where you can't hand out a Vote Leave leaflet, you can't be campaigning for that organisation."

Sarah Wollaston has a track record in flip flopping - leaving one group who distort stats to another who distort facts and try to frighten vulnerable pensioners.

I think it's more damning that JCB boss and Conservative peer Anthony Bamford (a successful businessman who exports most of his products) thinks Cameron's predictions of doom and gloom are rubbish. He's come out in favour of Brexit. And Osborne's performance on TV last night was laughable - Andrew Neil showed him up to be a liar when he continued to insist the elderly had ‘a lot to be scared about if we leave the EU’. However, under heavy pressure from Mr Neil, he conceded pensioners would benefit from a ‘triple lock’ on their incomes.

This Government measure is enshrined in law and means the state pension will always rise by inflation or the rate of earnings or 2.5 per cent - pensions will never rise by less than inflation. Neil also pointed to the empty purse poster released by the Osborne-backed Britain Stronger in Europe group. He then told Osborne: ‘You’ve been scaring pensioners. You should be ashamed of yourself.’

RandallFlagg

Brings a tear of pride to my eye: JCB boss votes LEAVE

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36485985

Note the way the BBC positions this story way down the list with the dumbo MP who has changed mind to vote REMAIN at the top with pics. Nice neutral reporting there

Axe_meister

My daughter is absolutely pissed off she can't vote.

She will be 18 in December. She is doing A-Level Economics and is very very well read on new issues.

And in/out vote will affect her far more than it will affect me. 

ToneControl

Axe_meister said:

My daughter is absolutely pissed off she can't vote.

She will be 18 in December. She is doing A-Level Economics and is very very well read on new issues.

And in/out vote will affect her far more than it will affect me. 

what's her opinion?

Axe_meister

She is in the In camp, yes she is taking a bit of a short term view, she will be off to uni in a years time, and then thinking what the economy will be like when she leaves, she would like to have free movement for work across Europe (she will be studying music)

quarky

Axe_meister said:

(she will be studying music)

Surely she doesn't expect a job then anyway

Fretwired

A question for the Remainers.

Supposing there's a recession in the EU (many banks are forecasting this) - what happens if the net 330,000 immigrants per annum increases to say 500,000 or 700,000 immigrants? What happens if because the UK is doing well the UK has to pay billions more (membership contributions to the EU are calculated on the basis of gross national income, if that goes up because the economy is doing well then so do the dues owed to Brussels).

Just interested to know if you think it a price worth paying for membership of the EU (serious question - not interested in a long debate on immigration as this is hypothetical). I just wondered if there's an upper limit on immigration that might sway people.

digitalscream

Axe_meister said:

She is in the In camp, yes she is taking a bit of a short term view, she will be off to uni in a years time, and then thinking what the economy will be like when she leaves, she would like to have free movement for work across Europe (she will be studying music)

I'd say she doesn't have to worry about the free movement across Europe if we did leave - any trade agreements with the EU will likely include free movement as a requirement (like Norway's model).

Of course, that completely negates most of the reason for leaving, but most people seem to be ignoring that entirely.

Bidley

UnclePsychosis said:

Bidley said:

I don't think there's any foul play with extending the registration period (although it's unprecedented I think? I don't know the facts), but if you're a young person, who doesn't give a shit about politics (and I didn't until a couple of years ago), you're going to vote remain because it seems like nothing will change, and that nice Mr Cameron says that's what we should do.

<br>Do you think that Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron is popular with young people who aren't that interested in politics? Really?  No. That part was flippant.

The rest of the post, that you ignored, suggests people who don't give a shit and are voting anyway will vote remain because it's the official government stance, and because staying, on the face of it, means nothing will change.

Anyone who has done prior research and formulated a well-informed opinion will have registered to vote ages ago.

Bidley

ICBM said:

Bidley said:

ICBM said:

Phil_aka_Pip said:

ICBM said:

If the yoof are more likely to vote In, why would that be?

because they've been brought up with the EU and can't conceive of life outside it?

because they're not old enough or wise enough to know any better?

tbh I don't know for sure but from what I've heard of them being interviewed on R4, the above are two possible explanations

Or because being young, they are more clued up with the media, more willing to do their own research, and not just believe what a bunch of self-serving politicians tell them?

Are you talking about Leave or Remain?

Having done plenty of research myself, and firmly erring towards leave, you could say the same for both. I'm also 30.

That's exactly what I mean. You're going to vote Leave. Some other young people might vote Remain.

So why the cries of foul about the government extending the registration deadline? Even assuming it's true that all the extra voters will be young people - what's the evidence for that either?

Or is it that the Leave campaign are scared that by including more people, they might lose? If so, why?

Again;

People who don't give a shit and are voting anyway will vote remain because it's the official government stance, and because staying, on the face of it, means nothing will change.

Anyone who has done prior research and formulated a well-informed opinion will have registered to vote ages ago. You'd think that would be pretty high up on the list of priorities if you're looking up which way you're going to vote.

I also specifically said in my post (which you removed from your quote) that I didn't think there was any foul play. This is a massive issue and there needs to be as many voices heard as possible. But you can definitely see why there are conspiracy theories.

eSully

Fretwired said:

A question for the Remainers.

Supposing there's a recession in the EU (many banks are forecasting this) - what happens if the net 330,000 immigrants per annum increases to say 500,000 or 700,000 immigrants? What happens if because the UK is doing well the UK has to pay billions more (membership contributions to the EU are calculated on the basis of gross national income, if that goes up because the economy is doing well then so do the dues owed to Brussels).

Just interested to know if you think it a price worth paying for membership of the EU (serious question - not interested in a long debate on immigration as this is hypothetical). I just wondered if there's an upper limit on immigration that might sway people.

I think @DigitalScream kinda answered the question. Large scale Immigration is obviously becoming an increasing issue across the Eurozone and you can't help but feel something will have to give in the future whether the UK is in or out. What I would suggest is that immigration levels will not be effected by this vote. We will keep free movement. This dramatic closure of borders and Australian points system simply won't happen either way so moving to reform from within is the better option.