EU Referendum Vote - Poll

ToneControl

Mkjackary said:

Evilmags said:

The two richest countries in Europe are not EU members. Coincidence?

Two richest countries in europe are germany (4th), then UK (5th) if going on GDP. Both currently in the EU.

Going by per capita isn't really fair when you have a tiny tax haven like luxembourg with a small population who are 2nd. Also if you are going by per capita then the USA is 13th and china is 88th. Something obviously wrong there.

He means Norway and Switzerland

Luxembourg and Liechtenstein don't really count as countries in the normal sense

hungrymark

I also don't understand the MP who has flipped because of the misleading EU contribution/NHS thing. The implication is that she was originally going to vote leave based on that one issue, assumed the figures were correct without doing any research into them so changed her mind when they turned out to be misleading. Or she was thinking about the big picture and has changed her stance not because of changing circumstances but because she is annoyed at the campaign itself, which is ultimately irrelevant after the vote has taken place. So she's either stupid or petulant.

TTony

hungrymark said:

So she's either stupid or petulant.

I thought those were basic requirements of an MP?

But, slightly more seriously, perhaps she was persuaded into changing her mind by the promise of a better govt job if the remainers win?  After all, there will be a few vacancies going once Cami purges his govt of the exiteers.

So, stupid or petulant, but mainly motivated by self-interest.

Fretwired

TTony said:

hungrymark said:

So she's either stupid or petulant.

I thought those were basic requirements of an MP?

But, slightly more seriously, perhaps she was persuaded into changing her mind by the promise of a better govt job if the remainers win?  After all, there will be a few vacancies going once Cami purges his govt of the exiteers.

So, stupid or petulant, but mainly motivated by self-interest.

Whilst she's never followed the party line something smells fishy as the Remain camp announced it this morning - pretty discourteous not to mention you were quitting to your colleagues in the Leave campaign. And a Labour MP has joined her.

If I were one of these conspiracy theory people I'd say there's been a stitch up here. Not that it makes much difference as to 99% of the population they are nobody's.

Nitefly

ToneControl said:

Rocker said:

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/112-1.html, seems everybody has 'forgotten' about Northern Ireland in the Brexit debate.

tbh, more people emigrated to the UK recently than the entire population of NI

That's a tad dismissive, @ToneControl - I think @Rocker 's point is that, if UK leaves EU, the border between NI and the Republic becomes an EU entry point.

Fretwired

Nitefly said:

ToneControl said:

Rocker said:

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/112-1.html, seems everybody has 'forgotten' about Northern Ireland in the Brexit debate.

tbh, more people emigrated to the UK recently than the entire population of NI

That's a tad dismissive, @ToneControl - I think @Rocker 's point is that, if UK leaves EU, the border between NI and the Republic becomes an EU entry point.

I don't think it does actually. I'll do some Googling but I think there's a 'special relationship' deal.

hungrymark

Nitefly;1104040" said:

ToneControl said:



Rocker said:

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/112-1.html, seems everybody has 'forgotten' about Northern Ireland in the Brexit debate.





tbh, more people emigrated to the UK recently than the entire population of NI







That's a tad dismissive, @ToneControl - I think @Rocker 's point is that, if UK leaves EU, the border between NI and the Republic becomes an EU entry point.

I think people in Northern Ireland have forgotten about Wales in the referendum debate.

Rocker

Of course the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland becomes an EU entry point if the vote is to Leave.  The so called special relationship between the UK and the Republic of Ireland regarding the free passage of people and goods across the border, could not continue to exist if Brexit happens.  This would seriously affect both parts of Ireland but I believe that Northern Ireland would fare out worse.  As I understand it, a serious amount of EU money is spent supporting the Peace Process.  That payment would have to be made up by the UK as Britain would no longer be a member of the EU following Brexit.

A lot more than Camerons continuing as PM depends on how the people vote.

Evilmags

Northern Ireland is financially irrelevant and any EU funds are easily replaced. The budget is tiny in a UK wide view.

The financial pain, sky high taxes and economic mess that remains entails is by far the highest risk to prosperity.

Mkjackary

Rocker said:

The so called special relationship between the UK and the Republic of Ireland regarding the free passage of people and goods across the border, could not continue to exist if Brexit happens.  

Why?

From the telegraph:

"Leave campaigners contend that, in practice, given there has been a free travel areas between the UK and Ireland since 1923 and that the Republic of Ireland is a not a member of the Schengen free movement area, this would not happen.

Instead, a workable arrangement would be reached, although the precise arrangement would depend on what kind of deal the UK struck with the EU.

If the UK was outside the EU common trade area, it is possible customs spot-checks would be needed, as happens between Sweden and Norway."

ToneControl

Nitefly said:

ToneControl said:

Rocker said:

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/112-1.html, seems everybody has 'forgotten' about Northern Ireland in the Brexit debate.

tbh, more people emigrated to the UK recently than the entire population of NI

That's a tad dismissive, @ToneControl - I think @Rocker 's point is that, if UK leaves EU, the border between NI and the Republic becomes an EU entry point.

they have indeed forgotten NI, which I never do - having family connections there, however I always remember that - for all the turmoil in NI, its population is far less than that of the conurbation of Manchester, Glasgow or Birmingham - probably more like that of Leeds

I'm just flagging up that more people have come from the EU in the last 10 years than the entire population  of NI

Does that not help with perspective on this issue?

ToneControl

Fretwired said:

Nitefly said:

ToneControl said:

Rocker said:

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/112-1.html, seems everybody has 'forgotten' about Northern Ireland in the Brexit debate.

tbh, more people emigrated to the UK recently than the entire population of NI

That's a tad dismissive, @ToneControl - I think @Rocker 's point is that, if UK leaves EU, the border between NI and the Republic becomes an EU entry point.

I don't think it does actually. I'll do some Googling but I think there's a 'special relationship' deal.

how would it not be a border? The EU is a (super) state, the UK would be a state

;-)

Emp_Fab

chillidoggy said:

One thing I do think that will be an interesting sideshow is the turn-out. Will it be more than a general election?

Well, the bookies think it's going to be huge...  http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/turnout-percentage

Rocker

@Mkjackary, you believe everything you read in The Telegraph? Or any newspaper? I don't....

BigBearKris

Snap;1101892" said:

If we vote leave, what I want to know is who is going to work in all the car washes??



Eh?



All the ones here are manned by johnny foreigners, and quite frankly, on a Sunday morning I really can't be bothered to wash my car, and £6 is money well spent, what what.

You Sir, are a fucking idiot.

Fortheloveofguitar

Another debate from ITV tonight

It's all the same by now and most already know how they're voting anyway

Once again it was depressing from the remain representatives to play the man and not the ball throughout the entire debate

Persistent slagging of Boris, they geared it all about him being after the PM job and naff all do with him really wanting out of the EU.

This does seem to be the remain camps strategy for the week after John Major started the public flogging on the Marr show Sunday past

It came across as pretty desperate and on the face of it looks like they've run out of real arguments now and this Boris bashing will see them through

However it's a strategy that probably won't make any difference as Boris is still polling the highest in the likeable and trustworthy reps polls and I can't see that changing

Clarky

been thinking a bit…

if the UK left the EU, and the EU decided to retaliate by placing a large tariff on the things the UK imports from the EU

prices of VW, Seat, Mercs, BMW, Audi, European wines and produce etc would go up a lot here

would that mean that folks in the UK may then consider buying more non-EU made / produced stuff instead?

so would we then see higher sales for Japanese etc cars, wines from USA, Australia, South Africa etc..

having then lost a chunk of market share, wouldn't the EU based manufacturers etc then lobby / pressurise the EU to sort it out?

I can't imagine a major manufacturer like the VW group sitting back and accepting such a loss of market share given that it owns so many subsidiary makes..

what occurred to me is that politics etc is between governments

market share is down to the likes of us, how we choose to spend our money and where we feel we get best value for money

Mkjackary

Rocker said:

@Mkjackary, you believe everything you read in The Telegraph? Or any newspaper? I don't....

It was the first thing on google, I don't favour any paper. It just mirrored my opinions re schengen area and history.

I didn't consider the idea that eu citizens could go into RoI freely and then into NI and then GB. There would need to be some kind of passport checks ala nordic passport union.

Honestly I think it is more likely that there would just be a soft border between Irelands and then a passport check when ferrying between Great britain, and NI/RoI.

Potentially there would be an agreement between RoI and UK regarding EU nationals entering RoI, and sharing that info between the two. 

Fortheloveofguitar

Another Labour MP going against Corbyn and supporting us leaving

http://news.sky.com/story/1709714/labour-mp-john-mann-comes-out-for-brexit

ToneControl

Clarky said:

been thinking a bit…

if the UK left the EU, and the EU decided to retaliate by placing a large tariff on the things the UK imports from the EU

prices of VW, Seat, Mercs, BMW, Audi, European wines and produce etc would go up a lot here

would that mean that folks in the UK may then consider buying more non-EU made / produced stuff instead?

so would we then see higher sales for Japanese etc cars, wines from USA, Australia, South Africa etc..

having then lost a chunk of market share, wouldn't the EU based manufacturers etc then lobby / pressurise the EU to sort it out?

I can't imagine a major manufacturer like the VW group sitting back and accepting such a loss of market share given that it owns so many subsidiary makes..

what occurred to me is that politics etc is between governments

market share is down to the likes of us, how we choose to spend our money and where we feel we get best value for money

all true

however - the world trade org already agreed a rate of 1.5 (average) with all EU countries, so they can't really charge more than that, even if we don't move to EFTA