EU Referendum Vote - Poll

Mkjackary

@Rocker

Actually upon thinking about it, we should build a wall. 80ft tall. And the best part is, we will make the Irish pay for it.

ToneControl

Mkjackary said:

Rocker said:

@Mkjackary, you believe everything you read in The Telegraph? Or any newspaper? I don't....

It was the first thing on google, I don't favour any paper. It just mirrored my opinions re schengen area and history.

I didn't consider the idea that eu citizens could go into RoI freely and then into NI and then GB. There would need to be some kind of passport checks ala nordic passport union.

Honestly I think it is more likely that there would just be a soft border between Irelands and then a passport check when ferrying between Great britain, and NI/RoI.

Potentially there would be an agreement between RoI and UK regarding EU nationals entering RoI, and sharing that info between the two. 

In fact, if we're honest, Ireland is a bit messed up if the Uk leave the EU

Most IE-EU trade passes through the UK at present

How would that work outside EFTA?

The IE-FR sea crossings are way too expensive

Clarky

ToneControl said:

Clarky said:

been thinking a bit…

if the UK left the EU, and the EU decided to retaliate by placing a large tariff on the things the UK imports from the EU

prices of VW, Seat, Mercs, BMW, Audi, European wines and produce etc would go up a lot here

would that mean that folks in the UK may then consider buying more non-EU made / produced stuff instead?

so would we then see higher sales for Japanese etc cars, wines from USA, Australia, South Africa etc..

having then lost a chunk of market share, wouldn't the EU based manufacturers etc then lobby / pressurise the EU to sort it out?

I can't imagine a major manufacturer like the VW group sitting back and accepting such a loss of market share given that it owns so many subsidiary makes..

what occurred to me is that politics etc is between governments

market share is down to the likes of us, how we choose to spend our money and where we feel we get best value for money

all true

however - the world trade org already agreed a rate of 1.5 (average) with all EU countries, so they can't really charge more than that, even if we don't move to EFTA

does that then mean that things would stay pretty much the same then?

Fretwired

Nitefly said:

ToneControl said:

Rocker said:

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/112-1.html, seems everybody has 'forgotten' about Northern Ireland in the Brexit debate.

tbh, more people emigrated to the UK recently than the entire population of NI

That's a tad dismissive, @ToneControl - I think @Rocker 's point is that, if UK leaves EU, the border between NI and the Republic becomes an EU entry point.

It's been confirmed that the UK and Ireland have a special agreement dating from 1923 that removes border controls. Should the UK leave the EU there would be no border controls netwen N. Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

ToneControl

Clarky said:

ToneControl said:

Clarky said:

been thinking a bit…

if the UK left the EU, and the EU decided to retaliate by placing a large tariff on the things the UK imports from the EU

prices of VW, Seat, Mercs, BMW, Audi, European wines and produce etc would go up a lot here

would that mean that folks in the UK may then consider buying more non-EU made / produced stuff instead?

so would we then see higher sales for Japanese etc cars, wines from USA, Australia, South Africa etc..

having then lost a chunk of market share, wouldn't the EU based manufacturers etc then lobby / pressurise the EU to sort it out?

I can't imagine a major manufacturer like the VW group sitting back and accepting such a loss of market share given that it owns so many subsidiary makes..

what occurred to me is that politics etc is between governments

market share is down to the likes of us, how we choose to spend our money and where we feel we get best value for money

all true

however - the world trade org already agreed a rate of 1.5 (average) with all EU countries, so they can't really charge more than that, even if we don't move to EFTA

does that then mean that things would stay pretty much the same then?

I looked at the incomprehensible WTO figures, and gave up

then I found a weighted average of tarrffs charged (i.e cost x usage)

which is a flat 1.5% for all EU countries

I doubt they will impose it -but how scary is 1.5 %?

Fretwired

ToneControl said:

I doubt they will impose it -but how scary is 1.5 %?

It isn't. We'd save a bomb. Personally I doubt we'd be charged anything as we'd simply reciprocate which would hit the EU as a whole harder than the UK.

Drew_TNBD

Vote leave and figure it out afterwards.

Sambostar

Drew_fx said:

Vote leave and use your Aussie passport to move back to Australia and worry about more pressing issues like Indonesia taking over Darwin.  Fuck these arseholes.

FTFY.

Clarky

I watched the debate this evening on ITV with BoJo etc..

as a still undecided type I was hoping to get something from it..

and didn't get much..

the only thing I noted was:

the Innies didn't seemed to talk about much in terms of facts or expected outcomes in any rational way

they dished out several personal attacks on BoJo and the Tories and how they can't be trusted

they talked a lot about independent nations within the EU, which seemed to me to be a bit of a contradiction

they talked a lot about how things would suffer [like families, workers and women's rights etc] but didn't state why or how

the Outies made more statements that included facts and figures [money, migrant and population numbers etc]

some of their facts seemed a bit unusual to me or skewed towards favouring their argument [as in, we pay out all of this, but failed to mention what we get in return so there was no way of determining if the outcome was a gain or loss for the UK overall]

when it came to sht slinging, most of it was in the Inny -> Outy direction

the Innies also did the most talking over the person answering the question [which was getting irritating cos you couldn't hear the answer and seemed just plain rude to me]

the Innies seemed to try to take the high moral ground whereas the Outies seemed to try to talk with more variety and explanation

I thought BoJo came across rather well.. far better than I expected..

and the South African [I think] woman next to him came across well [and very calm] too..

the Inny woman with the glasses was just plain stroppy and looked like she just turned up ready for a fight.. 

her ranting got irritating very quickly and stayed that way..

Summary:

the Innies failed to say much of real substance and looked to me to come of worse

the Outies at least said some stuff that got me thinking but said some stuff that I thought was a bit suspect.. but at least they made some sort of attempt to debate

I reckon the Outies won that debate

I reckon Clarky still needs convincing which way to vote.. 

cos none of them filled me with confidence that their way was the best way..

 

eSully

I did half watch the headache inducing ITV debate last night while doing some work. I'm sure both sides will claim it as a victory but they're both losers. Jobo was alright but the poorest of the leaver panel. @Clarky Gisela Stewart is the woman on the leave panel you're thinking of, I think she's German. Angela Eagle came across as a annoying whiny twat on the remain panel. Bumbled her answers, looked more interested in throwing digs at JoBo. She was pathetic. I saw on Twitter people saying even Sturgeon was rolling her eyes at her. I can safely say that's me done with the debates. Same old shit, same old tired sound bites, same old digs. Two hours of shit.

ToneControl

I saw the second half

the innies did poorly

only Jimmy Krankie spoke well, but used a lot of that energy on the usual Scotland topics

the one with glasses came across as unfocussed ranting

Angela Eagle was whiny as you say, and with Krankie wasted too much time attacking conservative policy

the outies did better, but did not get their case over the way I'd like, it was too dumbed-down

That Gisela Stewart had worked in Brussels on the Lisbon treaty, but was only able to show some of that depth and insight in the quick-fire debate format 

will this TV show affect voting much?

chillidoggy

I have never watched a TV debate or any description. They prove nothing, and solve nothing, except as a Jeremy Kyle, Real Housewives of Margate-type entertainment that the TV company can sell to its viewers. Every member of the audience is likely to have made his/her mind up, so they're utterly pointless.

chillidoggy

Anyway, I reckon gingers are behind all this Brexit malarkey.

chillidoggy

I mean, my wife's a ginger, and she wants out and so does Sambostar, so case proven.

chillidoggy

Right, I'm off to get some Stellas in, and re-assemble this sofa. My balls itch, though.

Phil_aka_Pip

Rocker said:

@Mkjackary, you believe everything you read in The Telegraph? Or any newspaper? I don't....

what was quoted from the Bellylaugh was also quoted on R4 yesterday. It seems to make some kind of sense.

Rocker

Fretwired said:

Nitefly said:

ToneControl said:

Rocker said:

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/112-1.html, seems everybody has 'forgotten' about Northern Ireland in the Brexit debate.

tbh, more people emigrated to the UK recently than the entire population of NI

That's a tad dismissive, @ToneControl - I think @Rocker 's point is that, if UK leaves EU, the border between NI and the Republic becomes an EU entry point.

It's been confirmed that the UK and Ireland have a special agreement dating from 1923 that removes border controls. Should the UK leave the EU there would be no border controls netwen N. Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

Such agreements were fine in 1923 or whenever, but the landscape has changed a lot since then. The border between NI and ROI is now bigger than merely between two countries. There is no way that the EU will allow a free border between the UK and the EU following a Brexit. Not a chance my friend. The biggest sufferes will be the people of NI and ROI. And business will become more difficult......

Fretwired

Rocker said:

F

Such agreements were fine in 1923 or whenever, but the landscape has changed a lot since then. The border between NI and ROI is now bigger than merely between two countries. There is no way that the EU will allow a free border between the UK and the EU following a Brexit. Not a chance my friend. The biggest sufferes will be the people of NI and ROI. And business will become more difficult......

The UK government have confirmed it and a government minister said as much on the BBC.

Mkjackary

A lot of the leave campaign is about a points based immigration system, but if there is no physical border, then someone could come from an EU country, into ROI, then cross over the border into NI, then go to Great britain. Completely bypassing the points system.

So it would be in the interest of the UK to have a physical border. 

chillidoggy

Rocker said:

Fretwired said:

Nitefly said:

ToneControl said:

Rocker said:

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/112-1.html, seems everybody has 'forgotten' about Northern Ireland in the Brexit debate.

tbh, more people emigrated to the UK recently than the entire population of NI

That's a tad dismissive, @ToneControl - I think @Rocker 's point is that, if UK leaves EU, the border between NI and the Republic becomes an EU entry point.

It's been confirmed that the UK and Ireland have a special agreement dating from 1923 that removes border controls. Should the UK leave the EU there would be no border controls netwen N. Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

Such agreements were fine in 1923 or whenever, but the landscape has changed a lot since then.

Shame the EU mandarins don't share similar views when it comes to the EU constitution, eh?