EU Referendum Vote - Poll

ICBM

Chalky said:

@ICBM - Surely you see that you argument has fallen to us leaving will "piss them off". So you're advocating staying with people who make foreign policy based on emotion?!

You sincerely believe the Germans will sacrifice their exports to us because we "piss them off"?

They have just explicitly said they will not allow us into the single market.

It's a question of who you believe.

Modulus_Amps

ToneControl said:

so we'd pay 1.5% more for our BMWs, that cash going to the UK govt to spend in the UK

This is not a big sacrifice

We probably already pay that to the banks to convert the pound to Euro.

Not seen this 1.5% figure anywhere else, but a point was made on the big question last night that even if there was a 5% tarrif we would still be better off. not done the maths myself

Modulus_Amps

ICBM said:

They have just explicitly said they will not allow us into the single market.

It's a question of who you believe.

"They"
Was that they not one man?

I think anything "they" say right now can only be taken with a pinch of salt as they won't want us to leave the EU, not because we are important but for the stability of the EU

chillidoggy

Like a car crash in slow motion, the Germans are watching the wheels coming off their Fourth Reich.

Skipped

Anybody watching this?
She seems a bit annoyed. (Contains swearing, possibly NSFW)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RjGSdDMJsM

ICBM

Modulus_Amps said:

"They" 

Was that they not one man?

"One man" who happens to be one of the most senior members of their government, and also the finance minister?

Modulus_Amps said:

I think anything "they" say right now can only be taken with a pinch of salt as they won't want us to leave the EU, not because we are important but for the stability of the EU

Is this the same Germany who some of the Leavers claim would actually prefer to be rid of the trouble-making UK?

)

The double-think and moving the goalposts would be funny if people didn't actually believe it…

Bidley

ICBM said:

The double-think and moving the goalposts would be funny if people didn't actually believe it…

The irony is stunning.

ICBM

Bidley said:

The irony is stunning.

You are Alanis Morissette and I claim my £5.

I hate to be fair to Cameron and the rest of the tossers in the official Remain campaign, but they have at least been consistent.

Bidley

ICBM said:

Bidley said:

The irony is stunning.

I hate to be fair to Cameron and the rest of the tossers in the official Remain campaign, but they have at least been consistent.

Who said anything about Captain Pigfucker and the official campaign?

chillidoggy

ICBM said:

Modulus_Amps said:

"They" 

Was that they not one man?

"One man" who happens to be one of the most senior members of their government, and also the finance minister?

So, a bit like Cameron or Osborne, and I wouldn't trust either of them with a charity collection box.

mellowsun

I don't get the leave argument. As members, we are part of the decision making process. We have a huge influence on what happens, in the European Parliament and in the Commission. The idea that it's a bunch of dictators over which we have no control and under whose command we are powerless is ludicrous. We are seen as leaders in Europe.

Right now we have a better deal than pretty much any other EU country, in terms of our opt outs and exemptions. To throw this all away over genuine concerns about EU migration makes no sense to me.

We'd still need to sign up to the vast majority of EU trade, employment and H&S regulations that we are currently signed up to (and that we were involved in creating) if we want to be part of the EEA.

ToneControl

Modulus_Amps said:

ToneControl said:

so we'd pay 1.5% more for our BMWs, that cash going to the UK govt to spend in the UK

This is not a big sacrifice

We probably already pay that to the banks to convert the pound to Euro.

Not seen this 1.5% figure anywhere else, but a point was made on the big question last night that even if there was a 5% tarrif we would still be better off. not done the maths myself

it's along way back in the thread - I tried to find this out, and AFAIK this is the correct info

I'll quote myself:

here are the average (weighted mean) tariffs for all countries:

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/TM.TAX.MRCH.WM.AR.ZS

it's completely not scary

if we revert to WTO tariffs on Brexit, it looks like around 1.5% max each way. This will be a trivial increase to the costs of goods going to and from the EU, and our govt (i.e. us) would gather more on the tariffs since more trade is into the UK

As I understand the EU  cannot impose a larger rate than the published WTO rates, which average 1.5% for the EU countries

ToneControl

opinions on this one please:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/674792/proof-Britain-will-not-lose-trade-deals-leave-EU-Chancellor-George-Osborne

Evilmags

I love this it's only 7%. Run the number and look at what it would do to their deficit. 7% of exports is a massive fuck off recession.

Fortheloveofguitar

chillidoggy;1105236" said:

Like a car crash in slow motion, the Germans are watching the wheels coming off their Fourth Reich.

This^

Sums up the whole EU 'project' in one hit!

Mkjackary

Evilmags said:

I love this it's only 7%. Run the number and look at what it would do to their deficit. 7% of exports is a massive fuck off recession.

Well, in reality they wouldn't lose 7% of their exports, they wouldn't go down to 0%. It would just be that if they decide they don't want a free trade deal, that they would have tariffs, making them more expensive. In turn that would reduce their exports to the uk, and be bad for them, but they wouldn't lose it fully, I'd be surprised if they even lost 1%.

However, even losing 1% is a massive deal, and actually the correct figure isn't 7%, it is 16% which would make us their biggest customer. They simply wouldn't make a crap deal with their biggest customer.

Evilmags

Besides the German government is fast losin popularity at home.

ICBM

Mkjackary said:

However, even losing 1% is a massive deal, and actually the correct figure isn't 7%, it is 16% which would make us their biggest customer. They simply wouldn't make a crap deal with their biggest customer.

The correct figure *for Germany* is 7%. It's 16% for the whole EU.

The internal trade between the other major EU economies is much greater than between any of them and the UK - their biggest customer is themselves, that was the whole point of the single market. If we leave that, we will suffer more than they will.

Evilmags

Nonsense. Germany going into recession kills anuly came of that happening. They don't hold all the aces here.

Mkjackary

if we leave and the eu digs their heels in, I can see owning german cars/bikes becoming a lot less cool than it currently is.