Johnny Marr - is it just me ?

octatonic · October 2013

I think he is a good guitarist with an excellent ear.

I see the worship as being part of him being in a big band that still had an 'underground' vibe about them, which inferred 'credibility' in the minds of some people.

The Edge had the same sort of thing before U2 became absolutely massive- but now is too much part of the establishment to be considered a 'cult guitarist'.

Pair that with with being a, ahem, less technical player- he showed a bunch of lazy musicians that they didn't need to practice phrygian dominant scales for 10 hours a day to become a 'good guitarist'.

Also he was a good looking lad who seemed to do well with the ladies- I bet if he looked like Redd Volkert he wouldn't have had such a huge following.

RobDavies · October 2013

bertie said:

randomhandclaps said:

The Smiths however were the band that started the Manchester music movement
got a lot to answer for then

Out of interest, is there ANYTHING you like?

EdGrip · October 2013

I think, given the endless stream of ageing/dead blooz-wankers and shreddly-widdlers and Rawk gods (TM) who cyclically clog up the cover of Guitarist, it seems a bit unfair to single out Johnny as an uninteresting guitarist - I'd say he's more interesting than most.

monquixote · October 2013

I think they'd stick Johnny on the cover for the same reason they would stick Noel Gallagher or Kurt Cobain. Not because of his incredible virtuosity, but because he has played on loads of great songs and created lots of great guitar parts.

He's also played with an absolute stack of people.

This is the list from Wikipedia:

Billy Bragg[edit]

• Talking with the Taxman About Poetry (1986)

• Don't Try This at Home (1991)

• Bloke on Bloke (1997)

• Reaching to the Converted (1999)

Bryan Ferry[edit]

• Bête Noire (1987)

Talking Heads[edit]

• Naked (1988)

Pet Shop Boys[edit]

• Behaviour (1990)

• Bilingual (1996)

• Release (2002)

• Yes (2009)

Banderas[edit]

• Ripe (1991)

Kirsty MacColl[edit]

• Kite (1989)

• Electric Landlady (1991)

Moodswings[edit]

• Moodfood (1992)

K-Klass[edit]

• Universal (1993)

M People[edit]

• Fresco (1997)

Beck[edit]

• Midnite Vultures (1999)

Tom Jones[edit]

• Reload (1999)

Bert Jansch[edit]

• Crimson Moon (2000)

Neil Finn[edit]

• 7 Worlds Collide (2002)

Oasis[edit]

• Heathen Chemistry (2002)

Beth Orton[edit]

• Daybreaker (2002)

The Charlatans[edit]

• Live It Like You Love It (2002)

Pearl Jam[edit]

• Feb 23 03#10 Perth (2003)

Quando Quango[edit]

• Pigs and Battleships (2003)

Karl Bartos[edit]

• Communication (2003)

Lisa Germano[edit]

• Lullaby for Liquid Pig (2003)

• In the Maybe World (2006)

Tweaker[edit]

• 2 a.m. Wakeup Call (2004)

Jane Birkin[edit]

• Fictions (2006)

Transit Kings[edit]

• Living in a Giant Candle Winking at God (2006)

Crowded House[edit]

• Time On Earth (2007)

Girls Aloud[edit]

• Out of Control (2008)

John Frusciante[edit]

• The Empyrean (2009)

Robyn Hitchcock[edit]

• Propellor Time (2010)

Hans Zimmer[edit]

• Inception OST (2010)

Pajama Club[edit]

• Pajama Club (2011)

Bellycaster · October 2013

I think The Smiths are great and really like Johnny Marr's Guitar Playing, I wish I could be as creative as he is with his Guitar compositions and song writing instead of doing what I normally do which is 75% of the time playing "other Guitarists Music".

But that's what I like to do.

So Johnny's not a Virtuoso, but then again, what %age of well known guitarists are? The Virtuosos are few and far between.

I totally love Satriani's playing and I also love David Gilmour's too and I also am awed by Nile Rodgers, he made himself great at playing Funk/Jazz-Funk and writing songs that were infectious. One Trick Pony? I think not!

These are a world apart technically and stylistically, but all have made significant contributions to music.

holnrew · October 2013

"This Charming Man" and "How Soon is Now?" have amazing riffs. I'm a big fan of his playing tbh.

I saw The Cribs once (during the time they released their one good album), he came on stage and joined them for a few songs. I pretty much jizzed myself.

bertie · October 2013

RobDavies said:
Out of interest, is there ANYTHING you like?

yep loads, but nothing as much as I dislike "the manchester movement"

octatonic · October 2013

bertie said:

RobDavies said:
Out of interest, is there ANYTHING you like?

yep loads, but nothing as much as I dislike "the manchester movement"

Liverpool sound?

chillidoggy · October 2013

bertie said:

RobDavies said:
Out of interest, is there ANYTHING you like?

yep loads, but nothing as much as I dislike "the manchester movement"

Is that like having a big crap in Manchester?

Fretwired · October 2013

randomhandclaps said:

He could be considered a guitar based composer like the two you mention - that said Guitarist would put Neil Young on the cover in a flash. He is technically a very accomplished player, he just doesn't tend to do the things we always expect of a recognised guitar icon. The stuff he plays on The Smiths' albums especially is far more complex than it first appears and it's quite easy to assume that maybe some parts are layered.
I would put Johnny Marr well in the category of players parts other guitarists say dismissively 'Yeah I can play that' and the proceed to fuck up.
The other factor with Johnny Marr is that he created his own sound. The Edge is technical incredibly limited in his style but regularly receive an iconic status for the 'Edge Sound'. Nobody back then sounded like Johnny Marr.

Good post. Spot on with the Johnny Marr sound - you know its him as soon as he strikes the first chord. I wasn't a massive Smith's fan but I do like his playing and his written some decent songs.

Paulo · October 2013

I used to jam with Johnny Marr on occasion or just listen to him noodling on guitar. He was a tremendously inventive and original player albeit as someone who was a melting pot of his influences. He had an intuitive understanding of altered tunings and would come up with ideas and voicings you wouldn't expect. I rated him as a musician though I've not heard much that innovation in more recent recordings.

octatonic · October 2013

Fretwired said:

randomhandclaps said:

He could be considered a guitar based composer like the two you mention - that said Guitarist would put Neil Young on the cover in a flash. He is technically a very accomplished player, he just doesn't tend to do the things we always expect of a recognised guitar icon. The stuff he plays on The Smiths' albums especially is far more complex than it first appears and it's quite easy to assume that maybe some parts are layered.
I would put Johnny Marr well in the category of players parts other guitarists say dismissively 'Yeah I can play that' and the proceed to fuck up.
The other factor with Johnny Marr is that he created his own sound. The Edge is technical incredibly limited in his style but regularly receive an iconic status for the 'Edge Sound'. Nobody back then sounded like Johnny Marr.

Good post. Spot on with the Johnny Marr sound - you know its him as soon as he strikes the first chord. I wasn't a massive Smith's fan but I do like his playing and his written some decent songs.

Composer is a big label- not sure I am 100% comfortable putting Marr up against Pierre Boulez, Beethoven, Debussy, Mozart, Bach or Frank Zappa.

Certainly they all wrote music but it seems that a bunch of skills, processes and intentions evident in the latter that are not present in the former.

RocknRollDave · October 2013

Within just the period he was with The Smiths, Marr employed electric guitar, acoustic guitar, 12 string, fingerpicking, capo, alternate tunings, Nashville stringing, slide guitar, artificial harmonics, backwards guitar, whammy bar...not to mention sound ranging from twangy clean to dirty, FX-heavy washes.

OK so his style and songwriting is not to everyone's taste, but surely there is enough variety of technique and sound to warrant the interest he receives from guitar geeks and guitar magazines alike...?

JayGee · October 2013

Personally I'm largely indifferent to The Smiths (a handful of tracks I love, a handful I loath, most of 'em I can take or leave, and the ones I love are, in my head at least more down to Marr's contribution than Mozza's) but love Marr, and have been known to wind people up by referring to him as the talented one from The Smiths...

Thing is, I don't think he's a great player, I think he's an interesting player with an ear for a good tune and a knack for turning a good tune into an interesting one.

That might strike some as being an overly fine distinction but it works for me and lets me enjoy and appreciate what he does without worrying about whether he's "better" or "worse" than other highly regarded players. :-)

Deadman · October 2013

Paulo;68743" said:
I used to jam with Johnny Marr on occasion or just listen to him noodling on guitar. He was a tremendously inventive and original player albeit as someone who was a melting pot of his influences. He had an intuitive understanding of altered tunings and would come up with ideas and voicings you wouldn't expect. I rated him as a musician though I've not heard much that innovation in more recent recordings.

Really? I'm impressed. What years?

hywelg · October 2013

Please people, post some clips of Johnny Marrs finest playing. I don't get him, but thats because I would never listen to the bands he's played with, but I'm open to listening to him in the context of the praise thats being lauded.

To me there are guitar players who changed everything and there are guitar players who play very well, and until I hear different, Johnny Marr is very firmly in the latter category.

I don't think you can rate a player based around how many kids picked up a guitar because of them, thats circumstance and the era (some were full of guitar bands and some eras were short of them) . Kids are most impressionable in their teens, and to them the best music is that which they were being bombarded with during this time. So if you ask under 40's who's the worlds best guitarist, you can bet Johnny Marr might be in there somewhere, though this just shows the ignorance of contemporary guitar culture by those who answer the question, and the bias of those asking.

I'd say Johnny Marr is a very good rhtymn guitarist, from what Ive heard, but then where would he sit in an all time list of rhythmn guitarists? fairly low down I'd say, but I am open to persuasion, though I do have the advantage that I haven't only had my ears open for the last twenty years, nearer to 50. He is a product of the time, was probably lucky to get his break in an era when guitarists weren't fronting bands like in my formative years. In JM's era you could write a couple of riffs and be famous, back in the late 60's/70's the top guitarists were knocking out fantastic riffs by the dozen, each.

I think you can only judge the merit of a guitarist from a distance, of time. Will JM's back catalogue be remembered like Tony Iommi? or even Rick Parfitt? or Wilko Johnson? I do have cause for serious doubt. And yet at the moment JM's star is seemingly in the ascendence judging by the number of times I see his name in Guitarist, but of course thats more to do with them doing the manufactureres bidding and promoting his sig guitar or whatever.

So c'mon, show why Johnny Marr is so lauded!

RocknRollDave · October 2013

hywelg said:

I think you can only judge the merit of a guitarist from a distance, of time. Will JM's back catalogue be remembered like Tony Iommi? or even Rick Parfitt? or Wilko Johnson? I do have cause for serious doubt.

I would say you are letting your personal tastes cloud your judgement there.
You may not likeThe Smiths and/ or Marr, but you surely cannot doubt the fact that they are held in high regard? Whether you think that is right or wrong is another matter, but seriously, how many people are really up to speed with Wilko Johnson's oeuvre?

octatonic · October 2013

hywelg said:

I'd say Johnny Marr is a very good rhtymn guitarist, from what Ive heard, but then where would he sit in an all time list of rhythmn guitarists?

Wisdom awarded for inconsistent misspelling of rhythm in a single sentence.

Skipped · October 2013

I have respect for him, based on what he did with The Smiths (following that was never going to be easy was it?)
He sounds like a guy who developed his technique to a point where he could play very well - and after that put the work, the hours, and the focus into the songs.
I can't prove it to you but I estimate that following this approach will increase your chances of fame by a factor of 100.

chillidoggy · October 2013

Someone create a poll, for God's sake!

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Johnny Marr - is it just me ?

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