Montys "ageing wax" snake oil? or good ?

rze99

fretfinder said:

rze99 said:

I use a mix black and dark brown mix leather dye after fine sanding the board.
2 applications.
leave to dry overnight each time
Then I use tiny tin amounts of Tru-Oil to seal. Rub hard until it's not there.
leave 24 hours
Then bore oil. 

result is always fab - he'res one I did a couple of weeks ago.

Looks like a great result - no idea why someone lol’d your post though, very strange. 

What kind of tru-oil and bore oil should you use though? I’ve just had a browse on eBay and there’s a few types available and there doesn’t seem to be much to choose between them apart from the price. Also, I guess if you don’t want quite such a dark, almost black colour you could use just a dark brown leather dye? Cheers.

Edit: do you have a ‘before’ photo so we can see the difference that the process has made?

Thanks I'm sure the LOL-er was so wowed they just hit the wrong button

I don't have before and after photos, sorry. 

The Tru-oil is Birchwood Casey Tru Oil Stock Finish 3oz Liquid for Shotgun/Rifle/Air Gun 

The Bore oil is Superslick Bore Oil - cheap stuff.

Yes, just blend the dyes to taste and try it. I think I used 2 parts black 1 part dark brown on this on as I wanted it to look very dark with the black body. You really need to take your time to get full coverage without over soaking and avoiding dribbles or staining the dot markers. I use a fine thin water colour brush. I used to do a a bit of art and it helps to have a steady accurate hand.

Kittyfrisk

Interesting read on such related matters here, although the website design is awful 
https://beafifer.com/boredoctor.htm

fretfinder

rze99 said:

fretfinder said:

rze99 said:

I use a mix black and dark brown mix leather dye after fine sanding the board.
2 applications.
leave to dry overnight each time
Then I use tiny tin amounts of Tru-Oil to seal. Rub hard until it's not there.
leave 24 hours
Then bore oil. 

result is always fab - he'res one I did a couple of weeks ago.

Looks like a great result - no idea why someone lol’d your post though, very strange. 

What kind of tru-oil and bore oil should you use though? I’ve just had a browse on eBay and there’s a few types available and there doesn’t seem to be much to choose between them apart from the price. Also, I guess if you don’t want quite such a dark, almost black colour you could use just a dark brown leather dye? Cheers.

Edit: do you have a ‘before’ photo so we can see the difference that the process has made?

Thanks I'm sure the LOL-er was so wowed they just hit the wrong button

I don't have before and after photos, sorry. 

The Tru-oil is Birchwood Casey Tru Oil Stock Finish 3oz Liquid for Shotgun/Rifle/Air Gun 

The Bore oil is Superslick Bore Oil - cheap stuff.

Yes, just blend the dyes to taste and try it. I think I used 2 parts black 1 part dark brown on this on as I wanted it to look very dark with the black body. You really need to take your time to get full coverage without over soaking and avoiding dribbles or staining the dot markers. I use a fine thin water colour brush. I used to do a a bit of art and it helps to have a steady accurate hand.

Great that’s helpful. Does that mean you have to avoid painting over the markers or they’ll get dyed too? I was thinking of doing it to a Les Paul and definitely don’t want the crown inlays to go brown! (I don’t have a steady hand and couldn’t paint a fence, never mind a picture!)

rze99

fretfinder said:

rze99 said:

fretfinder said:

rze99 said:

I use a mix black and dark brown mix leather dye after fine sanding the board.
2 applications.
leave to dry overnight each time
Then I use tiny tin amounts of Tru-Oil to seal. Rub hard until it's not there.
leave 24 hours
Then bore oil. 

result is always fab - he'res one I did a couple of weeks ago.

Looks like a great result - no idea why someone lol’d your post though, very strange. 

What kind of tru-oil and bore oil should you use though? I’ve just had a browse on eBay and there’s a few types available and there doesn’t seem to be much to choose between them apart from the price. Also, I guess if you don’t want quite such a dark, almost black colour you could use just a dark brown leather dye? Cheers.

Edit: do you have a ‘before’ photo so we can see the difference that the process has made?

Thanks I'm sure the LOL-er was so wowed they just hit the wrong button

I don't have before and after photos, sorry. 

The Tru-oil is Birchwood Casey Tru Oil Stock Finish 3oz Liquid for Shotgun/Rifle/Air Gun 

The Bore oil is Superslick Bore Oil - cheap stuff.

Yes, just blend the dyes to taste and try it. I think I used 2 parts black 1 part dark brown on this on as I wanted it to look very dark with the black body. You really need to take your time to get full coverage without over soaking and avoiding dribbles or staining the dot markers. I use a fine thin water colour brush. I used to do a a bit of art and it helps to have a steady accurate hand.

Great that’s helpful. Does that mean you have to avoid painting over the markers or they’ll get dyed too? I was thinking of doing it to a Les Paul and definitely don’t want the crown inlays to go brown! (I don’t have a steady hand and couldn’t paint a fence, never mind a picture!)

Yes, it will dye most dot markers and maple whether nitro or poly finish.

If you don't have a steady hand, then don't do it.

Kittyfrisk

Masking tape over the inlays, gently trimmed to fit with a scalpel/craft knife. Stain carefully round the inlay, remove tape when dry.

rze99

Kittyfrisk said:

Masking tape over the inlays, gently trimmed to fit with a scalpel/craft knife. Stain carefully round the inlay, remove tape when dry.

In theory. In practice it rather seeps under the masking tape. Accuracy works better for me anyway. 

mark123

@rze99 ;;

If over 2 days i give the fretboard a coat of black leather dye would 1 coat of tru oil be enough to seal it or have i got to do the 3rd coat with bore oil ?

And would candle wax on inlays stop the dye seeping into inlays ? then when dye is dry wipe candle wax  off then coat with tru oil ?.

P.s thanks for your replys 

MikeS

I forgot about this thread. Just an update with my experience. All applications laid on thick and rubbed in... First application left on for 2 hours, second again for 2 hours. Couldn't see a difference, third application left on 14 hours. Didn't' make a blind bit of difference that I could see. I took photos 'before', all ready to take the after shots, but didn't' bother in the end. It didn't work for me. It might work for you though.

Kittyfrisk

mark123 said:

@rze99 ;;

If over 2 days i give the fretboard a coat of black leather dye would 1 coat of tru oil be enough to seal it or have i got to do the 3rd coat with bore oil ?

And would candle wax on inlays stop the dye seeping into inlays ? then when dye is dry wipe candle wax  off then coat with tru oil ?.

P.s thanks for your replys 

Wax should stop any bleeding of dye into the inlay, but I think you'd have to be quite accurate with the application or you could  contaminate the fretboard too & that would stop the dye taking.
I reckon if you could be as accurate at coating an inlay with wax, then you'd be just as good at painting round the inlay as @rze99  has mentioned.

rze99

mark123 said:

@rze99 ;;

If over 2 days i give the fretboard a coat of black leather dye would 1 coat of tru oil be enough to seal it or have i got to do the 3rd coat with bore oil ?

And would candle wax on inlays stop the dye seeping into inlays ? then when dye is dry wipe candle wax  off then coat with tru oil ?.

P.s thanks for your replys 

Yes one application of Tru oil rubbed well in is enough. Make sure the frets are clear of any Tru oil with some fine wire wool. 

The bore oil - again rubbed well in - is the last touch; it somehow makes the whole thing come together and look the dog’s bollocks. 

rze99

Kittyfrisk said:

mark123 said:

@rze99 ;;

If over 2 days i give the fretboard a coat of black leather dye would 1 coat of tru oil be enough to seal it or have i got to do the 3rd coat with bore oil ?

And would candle wax on inlays stop the dye seeping into inlays ? then when dye is dry wipe candle wax  off then coat with tru oil ?.

P.s thanks for your replys 

Wax should stop any bleeding of dye into the inlay, but I think you'd have to be quite accurate with the application or you could  contaminate the fretboard too & that would stop the dye taking.
I reckon if you could be as accurate at coating an inlay with wax, then you'd be just as good at painting round the inlay as @rze99  has mentioned.

Hard to accurate with the wax. Easier to be accurate with paint. Think of it as fine art. 

marooned

 

marooned

marooned

Sorry that went a bit tits up.
Anyway, first pic before then wax on for about an hour.....has brought the grain out and darkened slightly. I think it’ll take a few coats to darken more but quite happy with the first attempt.

WezV

Tbh I don't think its doing much more than a good oil will by the looks of it.  


If you want real colour change then you need to look at dye, or developing the wood natural tannins with iron acetate(wire wool, left in white vinegar to dissolve).

First thing is always to thoroughly clean the board to get it as close to raw wood as possible.   Dont assume your board has nothing on it just because its straight from the factory.   It can also be a naturally oily board.  Give it a good rub down with lighter fluid and fine wire wool first if you want to be sure.   This  step may help with the ageing wax too.



If using dye, you do need to be aware of inlays, but you don't really need to mask them.    Pearl and most plastics won't be affected at all.  Celluloid and clay need more care. Any cracks or flaws in any material will be highlighted.  When dying a board with celluloid inlays you need to rub them down with fine wire wool as soon as the dye has dried... don't leave it too long. 

  You should be able to rub down the whole board with fine wire wool, and it still look stained after.  If not, it really hasn't penetrated well enough.  Was it raw wood?   This step also helps get rid of any surface stain that could rub off on your fingers.

I'm all for a coat or two of some kind of finishing oil after the stain.  Firstly,  it helps stop any lifting on your fingers.  Secondly, it makes it look less like a consistently stained board...  much more like a naturally dark piece of wood.

WezV

Just done some quick staining tests I thought might help

Found the palest rosewood blank from my stack  and an old rosewood boarded neck I made about 15 years ago thats also quite pale.


That board is rough sawn, so needs a quick scrape ... notice how much darker it gets just from being smoothed out... I just flipped it over to show the difference, before anyone points out the grain changed

Anyway, we have consistently pale on a complete neck at the top, and streaky raw wood below.


Tools for the test... fiebings dye, cheap Danish oil,  0000 Liberon wire wool.  And gloves, don't forget the gloves.




The dye is rubbed on with a rag.  Only did brown on the finished neck.  Black/raw/brown on the raw wood


Note the finished neck has only gone a shade or two darker.. note the increased contrast with headstock. The black is totally ebonised on raw wood, brown has taken away the streakyness totally

I didn't get a pic but next step was to rub back with the wire wool... it removes surface stain but doesn't change the look at all.

Oiling darkens everything brown, but does lift the black stain a bit making that less intense
Before


After


The finished board has gone from consistently pale, to a consistent mid brown.

The raw rosewood has actually gone quite nice just from the oil, but is a little more consistent and rich looking where it was stained with the brown.   The black section sits somewhere between dark rosewood and ebony, but looks a lot more natural for a bit of oil.  Wouldn't describe it as a streaky board now.

Alex2678

Great post, think that’ll answer most questions

mark123

When i was looking to darken my fretboard ages ago it was either @jdbwales ;; or @SteveRobinson ;; who reccomended the feibings leather dye .

I'm sure when i asked them they didn't mention about using anything to seal the stain after application , and didn't say anything about being careful around the inlays when applying , just brush on and wipe with a tissue if any of it gets on a inlay .

( I may be wrong , it was at least over a year ago )

p.s I haven't a clue why them symbols( ;; ) come up after i link any member ,it happens everytime ???.

SteveRobinson

I certainly have used Fiebings dye in the past but I always seal with Tru-Oil.

It doesn't penetrate inlays so when the oil is applied using wire wool, it comes right off.

WezV

SteveRobinson said:

I certainly have used Fiebings dye in the past but I always seal with Tru-Oil.

It doesn't penetrate inlays so when the oil is applied using wire wool, it comes right off.

It doesn't penetrate MOST inlays