Football - Euro 2020 Championship

guitars4you

UnclePsychosis said:

If FIFA wanted to change the rules *after* the event then that would be ok. But you don't get to then retrospectively apply them, that's what I'm objecting to. 

But suddenly deciding that handballs - a frequent occurance on a football pitch - that went unpunished were suddenly worthy of a retrospective ban is not a thing that any serious sporting authority would do. 

As an English man, I don't have a disgruntled view of the ref for missing the hand ball - I certainly don't hold any view that the game should have been replayed - You have to accept the decisions and outcomes made during the 90 mins

I'm sure none of us know/recall all the dotted i's and crossed t's regarding rules + regulations that were in place in 1986 - But I would guess some form of a code of conduct would have been amongst the rules, even back then - And  for such blatant 'cheating' then I would guess that such an offence would fall into a breach of a code of conduct - So a punishment could have been applied if they so wished - Remember earlier in the competition that and I quote Ray Wilkins, who drew a two-match suspension after he was shown the red card for a second cautionable offence in England's goalless draw with Morocco at the 1986 tournament in Mexico.  Wilkins, who had already drawn a caution for a tussle with a Moroccan player, had taken over the captain's armband when injury forced Bryan Robson to leave the match.  Minutes later, when he was ruled offside, he tossed the ball at the ground in disgust at the failure to call a foul and it hit the referee on the bounce.  FIFA increased the usual one-match suspension for a red card to two matches because it deemed the offence which led to Wilkins' second caution to involve abuse of the referee.

Just as an example - Keegan + Bremner, both sent off for 'fighting' in the pre-season Charity Shield, then throwing their shirts away in disgust, as they walked off, would both have expected to receive the regular automatic 3 match ban - But the authorities felt that 2 such influential players had set a bad example and on review decided that a fine, plus an additional 8 match ban was to be applied - This was 1974 and such a ban unprecedented at the time

You might have a point, that rules in place in 1986, might not have allowed for a ban to be applied for deliberately cheating/code of conduct  - As I said I don't know the full rules that were in place in 1986 - But surely by the time we get to 2009 and the Henry 'deliberate handball' against ROI and another case of 'deliberate cheating' then FIFA had no excuses not to have been able to apply additional punishment for such blatant cheating + poor code of conduct 

From FIFA's disciplinary book 2019 - Associations and clubs, as well as their players, officials and any other member and/or person carrying out a function on their behalf, must respect the Laws of the Game, as well as the FIFA Statutes and FIFA’s regulations, directives, guidelines, circulars and decisions, and comply with the principles of fair play, loyalty and integrity.

For example, anyone who acts in any of the following ways may be subject to disciplinary measures : -

1. violating the basic rules of decent conduct;
2. behaving in a way that brings the sport of football and/or FIFA into disrepute

Hard to believe that such simple rules, as per above, have not been in place for many years

Yes hand balls happen all the time - And yes many are not noticed by the ref for whatever reason - But in such a prime example, as the hand of God incident, then to allow such an influential player to get away with cheating, hardly comes across that FIFA had/have any credible code of conduct 

Creed_Clicks

It's done now so I don't see the point in moaning about it. Look at Maradona and the hand of God in 86. Granted he topped it off with one of the better goals seen in World Cup history, but swings and roundabouts. England got the rub of the green the other night. 
Thierry Henry did it in a world cup qualifier. People pissed and moaned about it, but it didn't reverse the result.

UnclePsychosis

What's the difference between deliberately handling the ball and deliberately tripping a player or deliberately pulling a shirt? 

Zero. They're all deliberate fouls, i.e. "cheating". 

The only difference is that the former induces pearl-clutching "oh the humanity" and the latter two are absolutely fine apparently. 

Football fans need to get over themselves. Hand of God was 35 years ago. Henry was 12 years ago. Two scandalous handballs in 35 years? I can live with that. 

And here's the rub - you *can't* make handball against the code of conduct. Because it happens accidentally as part of a game. You'd then have to either punish *everyone* who got away with a handball (an absurdity) or prove intent on behalf of the likes of Henry (an impossibility). 

On Henry, by the way, I don't remember the Irish offering to replay the game earlier in that same campaign where they beat someone (Belarus, I think) by virtue of one of the worst penalty decisions I'd ever seen. 

fob

I think one of the most distressing scenes from the England - Denmark game was at the end when Hjobjerg realised that he was back to being a Tottenham player.

Creed_Clicks

UnclePsychosis said:

On Henry, by the way, I don't remember the Irish offering to replay the game earlier in that same campaign where they beat someone (Belarus, I think) by virtue of one of the worst penalty decisions I'd ever seen. 

There you go. I think the FAI cried and cried about Henry. Well someone in the FAI; the dodgy ex president Delaney.
Roy Keane said at the time to just get on with it!

McSwaggerty

Never a penalty..

McSwaggerty

 

Rocker

It is only fair to point out that Henry did not score the goal that eliminated the ROI, the scorer was actually William Gallas.  Henry used his hand to stop the ball from crossing the end line, he then crossed it to Gallas who scored.

Another bad decision, was the goal scored by Frank Lampard - the ball clearly crossed the goal line but it was clawed out by the keeper.  Despite everyone seeing the goal, the officials did not and the goal was not given.

Time guys to look forward rather than back, the Final is on Sunday.  Let us hope for a good game, no controversies and the 'right' result.

McSwaggerty

Sorry.... Link doesn't work.
Pity, lt was funny..... 

not_the_dj

McSwaggerty said:

Sorry.... Link doesn't work.
Pity, lt was funny..... 

was it this 
https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/your-guide-to-englands-dive-penalty-laser-pointer-cheating-bollocks-20210709209974?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2N1c9OKGR70vYLyoEnid43A16tMYEG9EYJNHm2xgvqSQWQc0MzKJrKZiE#Echobox=1625824370

phil_b

UnclePsychosis said:

@guitars4you no, Maradona and Henry didn't not get banned because they were stars. They didn't get banned because the rules of football offered zero ways for Fifa to do so. 

On an entirely different note, remember this guy? Wonder when he'll try and sneak out his snivelling "well done England" posts and hope nobody notices. 

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/06/tory-mp-to-boycott-england-games-in-row-over-taking-the-knee?__twitter_impression=true

ref taking the knee.   I would say im a traditionalist and I would have not liked to see the team kneel during the national anthem. But doing it the way they have been doing  does show support for the anti racism cause whilst not causing any possible disrespect and I applaud that.

I also am quite horrified by the booing during other nations national antems. I wish it would stop

sev112

I’m sure I recall that RoI took EUFA/ FIFA to court ot tried to get an injunction in place before the finals with the intent to invalidate the result, and /or provide RoI with a place in the finals.

in the end I recall they took a big amount of money not to progress with the claim / case

guitars4you

So who has provisionally told the boss they are either not in Monday, or will be late

tony99

guitars4you said:

So who has provisionally told the boss they are either not in Monday, or will be late

Well my boss knows that I' m deffo gonna be late, but it's because Monday's my late shift.

Legionreturns

guitars4you said:

So who has provisionally told the boss they are either not in Monday, or will be late

Regrettably, I'm self isolating until Tuesday, by law. 

Gutted! 

munckee

I’ve booked Monday off which pretty much guarantees defeat. 

guitars4you

Legionreturns said:

guitars4you said:

So who has provisionally told the boss they are either not in Monday, or will be late

Regrettably, I'm self isolating until Tuesday, by law. 

Gutted! 

I finish today - My daughter tested positive about 10 days ago, so we've both had to go through that isolation stage - So I know how you feel - I've stayed negative throughout and she is fine now - Was a touch groggy for a couple of days

guitars4you

They tanked us in the Eurovision Song Contest 524 v 0 - So time for us to get our own back 

Creed_Clicks

Southgate has gone full on Churchill/Farage  

Creed_Clicks

sev112 said:

I’m sure I recall that RoI took EUFA/ FIFA to court ot tried to get an injunction in place before the finals with the intent to invalidate the result, and /or provide RoI with a place in the finals.

in the end I recall they took a big amount of money not to progress with the claim / case

I remember that. As an Irish person it was embarrassing