Not looking good for Queenie

darthed1981

Some posts in this thread are very disappointing and some of you have let yourselves down.

Not that any opinions here are necessarily invalid, but there is a time and a place for them and the time is not now.

Emp_Fab

Oh give over....  All this fawning about how she was this and that and dignity, thank God we had her, it could have been worse etc etc.  NOBODY here knew who she was as a person.  NOBODY.  I very much doubt a single one even met her, and if they did, it would have been for ten seconds.  Nobody here expressing how great a Queen she was etc has the slightest clue as to who she was as a person.  How can people fawn at the 'greatness' of someone they don't know, express grief at their passing ?  It's like Diana all over again - people crying at the gates for a woman they didn't actually know or ever meet.

She may well have been a lovely woman.  I don't know.  I never met her.  She seemed decent enough - unlike many of the idiots she brought into this world.  If she was truly deserving of the accolades being expressed so deferentially here, tell me what she actually did to deserve them ?  Name her actual achievements that are worthy of such praise.

As I said, I'm genuinely sorry she has died.  Death is never nice, and I'm sad for her family who are grieving, but I'm not going to be part of this deferential forelock-tugging nonsense.  As for the 'Shame on you, she's only died this afternoon' comments...   Tell me....  how does time passing have any effect ?  When is it appropriate to express an opinion - a day or two, a week... a month ?  What difference does it make ?  Is it because I am expected to show respect and deference to a woman I don't know ?

I've not said a single nasty thing about her personally.  I can't - I don't know her.  However, the system that put her in the position of unimaginable wealth and pampering for no justifiable reason, I do criticise - along with the fake grief being expressed for someone who is, in truth a media personality - and a complete stranger to almost everyone.

DrCornelius

Emp_Fab said:

Oh give over....  All this fawning about how she was this and that and dignity, thank God we had her, it could have been worse etc etc.  NOBODY here knew who she was as a person.  NOBODY.  I very much doubt a single one even met her, and if they did, it would have been for ten seconds.  Nobody here expressing how great a Queen she was etc has the slightest clue as to who she was as a person.  How can people fawn at the 'greatness' of someone they don't know, express grief at their passing ?  It's like Diana all over again - people crying at the gates for a woman they didn't actually know or ever meet.

She may well have been a lovely woman.  I don't know.  I never met her.  She seemed decent enough - unlike many of the idiots she brought into this world.  If she was truly deserving of the accolades being expressed so deferentially here, tell me what she actually did to deserve them ?  Name her actual achievements that are worthy of such praise.

As I said, I'm genuinely sorry she has died.  Death is never nice, and I'm sad for her family who are grieving, but I'm not going to be part of this deferential forelock-tugging nonsense.  As for the 'Shame on you, she's only died this afternoon' comments...   Tell me....  how does time passing have any effect ?  When is it appropriate to express an opinion - a day or two, a week... a month ?  What difference does it make ?  Is it because I am expected to show respect and deference to a woman I don't know ?

I've not said a single nasty thing about her personally.  I can't - I don't know her.  However, the system that put her in the position of unimaginable wealth and pampering for no justifiable reason, I do criticise - along with the fake grief being expressed for someone who is, in truth a media personality - and a complete stranger to almost everyone.

Give it a rest Emp FFS, this isn't the time for you to go fishing for an argument 

Brize

Emp_Fab said:

Oh give over....  All this fawning about how she was this and that and dignity, thank God we had her, it could have been worse etc etc.  NOBODY here knew who she was as a person.  NOBODY.  I very much doubt a single one even met her, and if they did, it would have been for ten seconds.  Nobody here expressing how great a Queen she was etc has the slightest clue as to who she was as a person.  How can people fawn at the 'greatness' of someone they don't know, express grief at their passing ?  It's like Diana all over again - people crying at the gates for a woman they didn't actually know or ever meet.

She may well have been a lovely woman.  I don't know.  I never met her.  She seemed decent enough - unlike many of the idiots she brought into this world.  If she was truly deserving of the accolades being expressed so deferentially here, tell me what she actually did to deserve them ?  Name her actual achievements that are worthy of such praise.

As I said, I'm genuinely sorry she has died.  Death is never nice, and I'm sad for her family who are grieving, but I'm not going to be part of this deferential forelock-tugging nonsense.  As for the 'Shame on you, she's only died this afternoon' comments...   Tell me....  how does time passing have any effect ?  When is it appropriate to express an opinion - a day or two, a week... a month ?  What difference does it make ?  Is it because I am expected to show respect and deference to a woman I don't know ?

I've not said a single nasty thing about her personally.  I can't - I don't know her.  However, the system that put her in the position of unimaginable wealth and pampering for no justifiable reason, I do criticise - along with the fake grief being expressed for someone who is, in truth a media personality - and a complete stranger to almost everyone.

Some people just don't get it, and have no idea how the world works. You, sir, are evidently one of them. Unsophistication personified.

Offset

Emp_Fab said:

Oh give over....  All this fawning about how she was this and that and dignity, thank God we had her, it could have been worse etc etc.  NOBODY here knew who she was as a person.  NOBODY.  I very much doubt a single one even met her, and if they did, it would have been for ten seconds.  Nobody here expressing how great a Queen she was etc has the slightest clue as to who she was as a person.  How can people fawn at the 'greatness' of someone they don't know, express grief at their passing ?  It's like Diana all over again - people crying at the gates for a woman they didn't actually know or ever meet.

She may well have been a lovely woman.  I don't know.  I never met her.  She seemed decent enough - unlike many of the idiots she brought into this world.  If she was truly deserving of the accolades being expressed so deferentially here, tell me what she actually did to deserve them ?  Name her actual achievements that are worthy of such praise.

As I said, I'm genuinely sorry she has died.  Death is never nice, and I'm sad for her family who are grieving, but I'm not going to be part of this deferential forelock-tugging nonsense.  As for the 'Shame on you, she's only died this afternoon' comments...   Tell me....  how does time passing have any effect ?  When is it appropriate to express an opinion - a day or two, a week... a month ?  What difference does it make ?  Is it because I am expected to show respect and deference to a woman I don't know ?

I've not said a single nasty thing about her personally.  I can't - I don't know her.  However, the system that put her in the position of unimaginable wealth and pampering for no justifiable reason, I do criticise - along with the fake grief being expressed for someone who is, in truth a media personality - and a complete stranger to almost everyone.

Emp, seriously... shut the front door.

TTony

Emp_Fab said:

Oh give over....  All this fawning about how she was this and that and dignity, thank God we had her, it could have been worse etc etc.  NOBODY here knew who she was as a person.  NOBODY.  I very much doubt a single one even met her, and if they did, it would have been for ten seconds.  Nobody here expressing how great a Queen she was etc has the slightest clue as to who she was as a person.  

Being Queen has absolutely nothing to do with who the person is.

It's about how the person who gets lumbered with the role fulfils it.

I doubt that many of the people who thought that they were "close" to her knew anything about her as a person.  She had to put the person aside to fulfil the role.

You are, sadly, completely missing the point of most of the posts here.

McToot

Chuffola said:

You can learn a lot about fellow forum members in a thread like this. 

Bang on. And people that I've respected (online) and even met in the offline world too. 

TTony

darthed1981 said:

Some posts in this thread are very disappointing and some of you have let yourselves down.

Not that any opinions here are necessarily invalid, but there is a time and a place for them and the time is not now.

For a youngster, you're not completely daft

Emp_Fab

"This isn't the time" ?  Why not ?  It's relevant news.

I'm not looking for an argument at all.  No matter how much you want to believe it, I'm not being nasty or mean about her.  It's the system I'm complaining about, and the virtue signalling in this thread.

On average, 1,887 people die in the UK every day.  That's 1.3 every minute.  Two people who were loved by their families have died in the time it's taken me to write this one post.  What about them ?  Are they less deserving of respect ?

I'll bail on this thread now as I don't want to disturb the peaceful personal sadness many of you are feeling at the passing of a complete stranger.  Maybe we ought to open a book of condolences - for all of the 600-odd people who have died, including Elizabeth, since this afternoon.

thumpingrug

Emp_Fab said:

Oh give over....  All this fawning about how she was this and that and dignity, thank God we had her, it could have been worse etc etc.  NOBODY here knew who she was as a person.  NOBODY.  I very much doubt a single one even met her, and if they did, it would have been for ten seconds.  Nobody here expressing how great a Queen she was etc has the slightest clue as to who she was as a person.  How can people fawn at the 'greatness' of someone they don't know, express grief at their passing ?  It's like Diana all over again - people crying at the gates for a woman they didn't actually know or ever meet.

She may well have been a lovely woman.  I don't know.  I never met her.  She seemed decent enough - unlike many of the idiots she brought into this world.  If she was truly deserving of the accolades being expressed so deferentially here, tell me what she actually did to deserve them ?  Name her actual achievements that are worthy of such praise.

As I said, I'm genuinely sorry she has died.  Death is never nice, and I'm sad for her family who are grieving, but I'm not going to be part of this deferential forelock-tugging nonsense.  As for the 'Shame on you, she's only died this afternoon' comments...   Tell me....  how does time passing have any effect ?  When is it appropriate to express an opinion - a day or two, a week... a month ?  What difference does it make ?  Is it because I am expected to show respect and deference to a woman I don't know ?

I've not said a single nasty thing about her personally.  I can't - I don't know her.  However, the system that put her in the position of unimaginable wealth and pampering for no justifiable reason, I do criticise - along with the fake grief being expressed for someone who is, in truth a media personality - and a complete stranger to almost everyone.

Im not a royalist by any measure, but I did meet The Queen and Prince Phil at a civic event and had lunch with them for well over an hour, so more than the 10 seconds you mention.  This was in 2007 so a fair few years ago but she was in her 80s and by lunchtime ( it was a good lunch) they had both been on the go for 6 hours, having opened a hospital ward at 7.00am that morning.  They were both utterly professional and endearing to all present and did a job on all of us, spending a few minutes with each of us asking what we did and sensible follow on questions.   

Later that day they moved on to open a new lifeboat training centre and had an evening event at a museum.  It was in total a 13-14 hour day.    Bloody long for many of us but for two 80 year olds having to keep their wits about them and basically "entertain" people all day, a very long day.  She and Phil earned my respect that day.

I have no personal connection other than that one day's meeting ( oh and standing by the Humber bridge waving as a kid in the early 80s when she drove past just after it was opened) but I was saddened by today's news.  The world has lost an icon, it's lost someone who has advised not just our prime ministers, but other world leaders, who have queued to spend time with her and have often come away surprised at her depth of knowledge of world affairs and insight that she has.

We will never see the like again.

There are many aspects of what you say I agree with ( hey! Im not a roylist) but that discussion and debate is for another day and another thread.

McToot

Emp_Fab said:

"This isn't the time" ?  Why not ?  It's relevant news.

I'm not looking for an argument at all.  No matter how much you want to believe it, I'm not being nasty or mean about her.  It's the system I'm complaining about, and the virtue signalling in this thread.

On average, 1,887 people die in the UK every day.  That's 1.3 every minute.  Two people who were loved by their families have died in the time it's taken me to write this one post.  What about them ?  Are they less deserving of respect ?

I'll bail on this thread now as I don't want to disturb the peaceful personal sadness many of you are feeling at the passing of a complete stranger.  Maybe we ought to open a book of condolences - for all of the 600-odd people who have died, including Elizabeth, since this afternoon.

You, sir, are a total imbecile. 

Teetonetal

Emp_Fab said:

However, the system that put her in the position of unimaginable wealth and pampering for no justifiable reason

Privilege.

All of us in the western world have it, even if we don't recognise it in ourselves. Just some are more privileged than others. It is how our world is and will always be.

stufisher

It's time for Rabbie-wisdom to try and shift ALL of us along together to a less 'sparky' discussion.

Then let us pray that come it may,

(As come it will for a' that,)

That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,

Shall bear the gree, an' a' that.

For a' that, an' a' that,

It's coming yet for a' that,

That Man to Man, the world o'er,

Shall brothers be for a' that.

Sambostar

Emp_Fab said:

Oh give over....  All this fawning about how she was this and that and dignity, thank God we had her, it could have been worse etc etc.  NOBODY here knew who she was as a person.  NOBODY.  I very much doubt a single one even met her, and if they did, it would have been for ten seconds.  Nobody here expressing how great a Queen she was etc has the slightest clue as to who she was as a person.  

I'II just go along in case there's a marine looking over my shoulder and it could always be worse.  Honestly, I think she lost the will to live after meeting Liz Truss.

beed84

While I’m no Royalist, the Queen provided the nation a constant in peoples lives whether they were aware of it or not. People may not be fully aware of what she did, but it’s difficult not to acknowledge her steadfastness throughout her 70-year reign. 

Thrust in to such a position isn’t necessarily a birthright a person wants, yet she cracked on regardless. She had a job to do and she did it without faltering – it’s hard to imagine we’ll see that level of commitment again. Whatever you think of her, she deserves tremendous respect for her duty.

tony99

so what happens with money?

I have about £60 in notes and £20 odd in coins (yeah the great gatsby)

is it still fine?

drofluf

tony99 said:

so what happens with money?

I have about £60 in notes and £20 odd in coins (yeah the great gatsby)

is it still fine?

It’ll be fine until the coronation but after that you won’t be able to spend it but will have to wait until the Charles III notes and coins have been printed and minted. Then you can go to your bank and exchange them. 

Fledermaus

I remember watching a tv programme about her life and what she did on a daily basis. Whilst some may say much of it was “symbolic” and “of no use” her day was full of paperwork and meetings and organising….. so much stuff she had to do…

Her duties. 

Alas, the sort of programme that people who don’t like the monarchy wouldn’t watch…..

Imagine being told you have to entertain Trump! Jeez!

DUTY a word which seems to be loosing its importance and relevance.
For all the privilege I wouldn’t have wanted the roll for anything. To be in the public eye, under scrutiny, all the time.

I was brought up a Royalist, but times change….. I don’t think we will see her kind again and I don’t know what the alternative could be?

RIP Elizabeth

DrumBob

As an American, she was certainly not my queen, but nonetheless, I feel a sense of sadness at Elizabeth's passing for some reason. For most people in Britain, she was the only reigning monarch they ever knew. I do think she dedicated her life to serving her subjects, and carried out her duties in almost all cases, with great dignity and grace. One incident where she failed was in her slow recognition of the death of Princess Diana. 

Then again, I do think the concept of monarchy is outmoded, but that's just the opinion of a citizen whose country doesn't utilize that institution. 

You Brits may be surprised to know that Elizabeth is generally looked upon by most Americans with fondness, I believe. I also  think that a vast majority of the English people feel a great sense of loss tonight. Elizabeth was always there, a steady, calming presence through good times and bad. 

My sympathies and condolences to you who mourn her passing. To those who have scorned her on this board, that's your opinion and right to do so, however callous I think it may be. 

Sambostar

Not sure these sentiments will rest with me as I identify as the Atlantic Ocean, but I thank you, and all your countrymen for the word Utilize with a 'z', having road signs that say 'Yield', having speed limits of 35 and 55 mph on the interstate, arresting people for being naked, whilst having the formerly best porn industry in the world and generally being more antiquated, prude and Victoriana than we ever were.  

Thanks again, for keeping Britain going in the new world.  What did Trump do?  Appoint a load of cronies in the Supreme Court who overruled the democracy on abortion rights, whilst he got caught with sensitive nuclear secrets.  Boris?  He got his Tory Peer, Lord Pannick to rule that the whole Partygate enquiry was unlawful, even though Sue Gray could never be trusted in the first place, seeing her track history of denying the outing of the reports of the infected blood reviews.  What does Putin do?  Chuck them out of sixth storey hospital windows. He doesn't mess around.

This is why the Queen and Royalty can be construed as a good thing