The F1 thread

TimmyO

boogieman said:

I’ve noticed something really annoying over the last few races. A car goes to overtake and then before the move’s completed the director pulls away to a shot of the crowd going crazy, rather than show what’s going on on-track. You then have to wait for the replay to see it properly.  must admit I’m watching it in poverty mode on C4, don’t know if it’s any different in the live Sky coverage? 

can't say I've noticed much of that - except embarrassingly I thought the only race this season with crappy live camera coverage was Silverstone where we did seem to miss the second half of a fair few things live. 

not_the_dj

The broadcasters all get the same camera feed, so it would be the same on C4 as Sky. 

In other news post race penalties for Alfa so Hamilton did score.....and Kubica at Williams has a point!

prowla

Merc were pretty shambolic this weekend. it occurred to me that they should look at colour-coding their tyre warmers so they can spot them easily.

Hamilton's penalty for the pit entry was stupidity - surely some common-sense should apply rather than just quoting rule X subsection Y; however it made no difference anyway.

That race was not one to be running in when you've got the flu or whatever it was; in retrospect, they should have given Ocon a run. But Hamilton did manage to grab a couple of points, so maybe it was worth it.

The track itself was not safe and they need to fix that before they next race there; the fact that several drivers went off at the same point and found themselves on a skid-pan is not up to standard; it's just luck that nothing serious happened there.

Race-wise, it was a hoot, though!

stickyfiddle

I'm honestly fine with Hamilton's penalty. Black & white rules are the best ones, and he broke one, so it's simple. 

I'm less fine about the fine for Leclerc in the pitlane, even though I desperately want to see him win. As much as I don't want to penalise drivers for unsafe release, you shouldn't be giving a company the size of Ferrari a 5k fine. That's beans to any team on the grid. It should be deduction of team points at the very least. I'd also see the rules changed to have a marker in the pitlane for each team e.g. 2 garages back, or whatever - if there is a car between that marker and your own you are not allowed to release. Simple, objective, and applicable equally at every circuit irrespective of pitlane width. It would mean some guys would occasionally get massively fucked over (i'm sure that would have happened multiple times yesterday!) but it would be equal, and clear and fair. We've seen it multiple times this season, because right now the precedent is that teams pay 5k to not lose the place in the pits. That's just not on. 

As for yesterday's racing, I do like it when the teams find they can't rely on computers to tell them what to do. With that in mind, I'd ban all off-site analysis during race weekends, ban the use of sims during race weekends, and limit the use of computers for strategy at the track as well. 

And the track was safe enough, imo. Noone was particularly close to getting hurt at any point, as there were lots of offs but all at very slow speed. It was like F1 used to be - drivers struggling on the edge of control for 2 hours, plenty of mishaps and those who manage to keep it "on the bubble" getting the rewards. More please! 

stickyfiddle

And Gasly will be gone after the summer break. He's a nice guy but clearly not up to the job. I reckon they'll switch him with Kvyat, who seems to be getting better with every race this year.

TimmyO

Yes the Ferrari penalty is plain wrong - should not be encouraging the ability to buy track position for a few thousand euro at the cost of driver and mechanic safety. 

The pit lane should be sacrosanct

boogieman

What’s going to happen with Ocon? Replacing Bottas next season or going elsewhere? 

prowla

Turn 16 wasn't safe because several drivers went off at the same place and hit a skid-pan instead of being slowed down; it's fortunate that there was a gap between them happening and they didn't hit at exactly the same spot.

Sainz, Leclerc, Hamilton, Hulkenberg, Bottas,

Hamilton hit the barrier close to Leclerc's car, whilst he was walking away.

https://youtu.be/T2e8rL0d4z0

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.race-highlights-2019-german-grand-prix.SabHkAQi5f7mbSTNhGdSy.html

Cols

stickyfiddle said:

And Gasly will be gone after the summer break. He's a nice guy but clearly not up to the job. I reckon they'll switch him with Kvyat, who seems to be getting better with every race this year.

That’s about all they can do; there’s no-one in the Red Bull Junior programme remotely close to getting a super licence.  Dan Ticktum was closest, and he’s been given the boot.  

ESBlonde

The Hamilton penalty was a bugger. If he went inside the bollards he would go against the flow and get penalised. If he did a lap he would drape debris all around and get a penalty, or he could go direct to the pit and get a penalty. Perm one from 3, but you get a penalty anyway, the pit stop was just a disaster. 

Modellista

boogieman said:

What’s going to happen with Ocon? Replacing Bottas next season or going elsewhere? 

Ocon and Verstappen at Mercedes next year could happen.

Modellista

The race looked great, shame too much happened to fit into the highlights, so there was loads that didn't make sense, in particular when they didn't pit Hamilton during a safety car.

I love the poetry of the Hamilton-Vettel situation being completely reversed from last year - one of them coming from the back to the front and the other doing the opposite at the same track in similar conditions.  Vettel might get his mojo back after this and bring the fight to Mercedes who showed worrying signs of complacency this weekend.  Could he close the 80-odd point gap to Hamilton? 

Stranger things have happened.  Vettel needs to close an 84 point gap over 10 races.  That's 8.4 points per race, or 0.34 wins per race.  That would hardly get him into the top ten of comebacks on this list.

Odds are 100/1.  I quite fancy a tenner on that.

boogieman

Modellista said:

The race looked great, shame too much happened to fit into the highlights, so there was loads that didn't make sense, in particular when they didn't pit Hamilton during a safety car.

I love the poetry of the Hamilton-Vettel situation being completely reversed from last year - one of them coming from the back to the front and the other doing the opposite at the same track in similar conditions.  Vettel might get his mojo back after this and bring the fight to Mercedes who showed worrying signs of complacency this weekend.  Could he close the 80-odd point gap to Hamilton? 

Stranger things have happened.  Vettel needs to close an 84 point gap over 10 races.  That's 8.4 points per race, or 0.34 wins per race.  That would hardly get him into the top ten of comebacks on this list.

Odds are 100/1.  I quite fancy a tenner on that.

If I was a gambling man I’d take your bet. I don’t think it was complacency from Merc, just way out of  character for them to get caught on the hop like that. Arses will be kicked no doubt and I doubt it’ll happen again. Hamilton was also completely out of sorts this weekend, he was struggling to get past the Williams cars at the end of the race, normally he’d sail past. Seb won’t stand a chance against a fit Lewis and an organised MB pit. 

Fretwired

Entertaining race - Verstappen has gone from an error strewn arsehole into a mature driver whose my favourite right now. He's become Hamiltonesque in the way he makes no mistakes and has developed speed and some serious race craft and has calmed down when interviewed when things don't go right. Perhaps he's watched Hamilton. Had it not been for some technical issues he could be second in the drivers championship.

Hamilton had an off day - he was sick but in a way it was good to see Mercedes implode as it made the race more interesting. Vettel's drive from the back to the front was entertaining and Leclarc is probably where Verstappen was a year or two back - fast but inexperienced so makes errors.

If I were Bottas I'd be worried. Another poor weekend. Looks like 2020 could shape up to be more competitive as Honda develop their engine - Red Bull have the best car - and Ferrari reorganise to reduce their mistakes. Can Toto risk keeping Bottas or does he swap him for George Russell or another younger driver? Hamilton's getting older and is out of contract next year. Mercedes need to follow Ferrari and Red Bull and get some young raw talent on board.

prowla

Hamilton was well below par, so it's no surprise that he didn't perform very well and Merc completely stuffed his race too; the only good thing for him are that it all happened on the same weekend and he still increased his championship lead.

I'm not sure about all this Bottas bashing; he's a darned good number 2 driver.

Octafish

Modellista said:

boogieman said:

What’s going to happen with Ocon? Replacing Bottas next season or going elsewhere? 

Ocon and Verstappen at Mercedes next year could happen.

No it absolutely couldn't, there's only potentially one seat open - Bottas'. Hamilton won't retire this year and obviously Mercedes want to keep him as long as possible. Verstappen has pretty much said he is committed to the RB/Honda project for now. Ocon replacing Bottas looks possible, although I don't think Ocon will be much of an upgrade, He's clearly not another Hamilton or Verstappen.

Octafish

boogieman said:

Modellista said:

The race looked great, shame too much happened to fit into the highlights, so there was loads that didn't make sense, in particular when they didn't pit Hamilton during a safety car.

I love the poetry of the Hamilton-Vettel situation being completely reversed from last year - one of them coming from the back to the front and the other doing the opposite at the same track in similar conditions.  Vettel might get his mojo back after this and bring the fight to Mercedes who showed worrying signs of complacency this weekend.  Could he close the 80-odd point gap to Hamilton? 

Stranger things have happened.  Vettel needs to close an 84 point gap over 10 races.  That's 8.4 points per race, or 0.34 wins per race.  That would hardly get him into the top ten of comebacks on this list.

Odds are 100/1.  I quite fancy a tenner on that.

If I was a gambling man I’d take your bet. I don’t think it was complacency from Merc, just way out of  character for them to get caught on the hop like that. Arses will be kicked no doubt and I doubt it’ll happen again. Hamilton was also completely out of sorts this weekend, he was struggling to get past the Williams cars at the end of the race, normally he’d sail past. Seb won’t stand a chance against a fit Lewis and an organised MB pit. 

Yep exactly, Hamilton makes his first serious points-costing mistake in several years, Vettel has already made three this year and will likely make more plus Ferrari don't really have the car enough of the time and even when they do, they squander it.

Boromedic

prowla said:

Hamilton was well below par, so it's no surprise that he didn't perform very well and Merc completely stuffed his race too; the only good thing for him are that it all happened on the same weekend and he still increased his championship lead.

I'm not sure about all this Bottas bashing; he's a darned good number 2 driver.

I think the fact Lewis put it in the wall scuppered his race the most.... 

prowla

Boromedic said:

prowla said:

Hamilton was well below par, so it's no surprise that he didn't perform very well and Merc completely stuffed his race too; the only good thing for him are that it all happened on the same weekend and he still increased his championship lead.

I'm not sure about all this Bottas bashing; he's a darned good number 2 driver.

I think the fact Lewis put it in the wall scuppered his race the most.... 

I thing that's encompassed by "not performing very well"... :-)

Fretwired

Boromedic said:

prowla said:

Hamilton was well below par, so it's no surprise that he didn't perform very well and Merc completely stuffed his race too; the only good thing for him are that it all happened on the same weekend and he still increased his championship lead.

I'm not sure about all this Bottas bashing; he's a darned good number 2 driver.

I think the fact Lewis put it in the wall scuppered his race the most.... 

Hamilton was on the wrong tyres .. the pitwall and strategy guys panicked as everyone else was swapping, but if they'd cared to wait a few minutes they'd have seen slick tyres were the wrong choice, Verstappen spun long before Hamilton made the pits. So Hamilton crashes and picks up a 5 second penalty (which was correct - rules are rules). But then there was another safety car - Hamilton was third and the pitwall made another mistake. They should have pitted him as although he'd have to serve a 5 second penalty he wouldn't have fallen behind as much as he did later in the race. Mercedes admit they made another wrong call.