I'm so angry right now... People should NOT be bullied because of what they wear...

randomhandclaps

chillidoggy said:

The bird on the right is well hot, I'd shag her.

Not for me.  I like intelligent women and she's clearly shit at even simple equations,

http://thewaterpipe.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/j-valenti.jpg

Drew_TNBD

She's like a real life version of this:

http://monstervine.com/wp-content/2010/01/day-today.jpg

robinbowes

Drew_fx said:

Dude..  This is how I speak, and I type as I speak. I don't sugar coat it. If you're going to have debates or discussions with me, you should really get used to it.

As it happens I DID read the article, and guess what, I disagreed with her viewpoint! Shock horror. She's being a massive hypocrite, one rule for guys.. one rule for women... the very definition of sexism! That is what I was drawing attention to.

Now kindly get the fuck off my dick.

I really don't know why I bother, but...

Where's the hypocrisy? What is she saying that doesn't apply to both men and women? I get you don't agree with what she says, but I certainly don't see any hypocrisy.

R.

Drew_TNBD

robinbowes said:

Drew_fx said:

Dude..  This is how I speak, and I type as I speak. I don't sugar coat it. If you're going to have debates or discussions with me, you should really get used to it.

As it happens I DID read the article, and guess what, I disagreed with her viewpoint! Shock horror. She's being a massive hypocrite, one rule for guys.. one rule for women... the very definition of sexism! That is what I was drawing attention to.

Now kindly get the fuck off my dick.

I really don't know why I bother, but...

Where's the hypocrisy? What is she saying that doesn't apply to both men and women? I get you don't agree with what she says, but I certainly don't see any hypocrisy.

R.

- It's okay for me to benefit from objectification

- It's not okay for him to wear a shirt, coz objectification

If you don't get that... then jesus fucking christ....

robinbowes

<sigh>

You're still missing the whole point. It's not about the shirt. The shirt is fine. I would wear the shirt, but not in the context he wore it.

R.

Drew_TNBD

robinbowes said:

<sigh>

You're still missing the whole point. It's not about the shirt. The shirt is fine. I would wear the shirt, but not in the context he wore it.

R.

You're moving the goalposts.

When this thing kicked off, it was NOT about the context he wore it. Go back and read the articles put out in the first 24 hours. It was about him objectifying women, full stop.

It was only when these feminists experienced the righteous fury and backlash of almost EVERYONE on the internet it seems, that they started to recontextualize their objections.

It is you who is missing the point. The initial outburst about this t-shirt had nothing to do with the context he wore it in, and everything to do with the fact he was a man with a shirt that made them uncomfortable.

The core point is this: the whole thing is hypocritical. For years we've been told "don't shame people for their clothing, their sexuality, and don't victim blame" and then those very same people do the exact opposite of what they've been preaching.

And THAT is what we are all offended by. It's nothing to do with them being women (many of them are not) and it's nothing to do with them being outspoken.

Exactly the same for the GamerGate movement... we hate this hypocritical moral narcissism that they are spreading. And you seem to be helping them.

[insert word fuck here]

robinbowes

Sorry, but you're wrong.

The whole furore is about the context in which he wore the shirt. Always has been. Read my first reply to you on here - what does it talk about?

You're the one taking the opportunity to turn this into a misogynist, anti-feminist rant.

R.

breakstuff

Fretwired said:

Stand by your beds ...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/a-pornographer-and-atheist-explains-why-the-science-guys-shirt-crash-landed/#.VGkWdZ0K9k5.facebook

Calm down dear.

It's only a shirt.

Drew_TNBD

robinbowes said:

Sorry, but you're wrong.

The whole furore is about the context in which he wore the shirt. Always has been. Read my first reply to you on here - what does it talk about?

You're the one taking the opportunity to turn this into a misogynist, anti-feminist rant.

R.

You're wrong on every single level. As I said - go back and read the ARTICLES (not the forum posts here) that were written when this all kicked off. Bear in mind that I started this thread a good 48 hours or more after the whole incident kicked off. That is a long time in internet land. Your post that you reference was posted when the shirtgate people had already recontextualized their outrage once the internets called them stupids.

Furthermore, you ask me to answer your questions, and when I do, you resort to calling me a misogynist. At no point during this thread have I attacked or belittled women in general. Only feminists or specific people.

Feminists =/= women in general.

One of the key ways that feminists argue is vilification of their detractors - so it's no surprise really - but dayummmm son.... I thought you were supposed to be intelligent?!

How about not resorting to ad hominem and actually tackle my argument?

robinbowes

You don't have an argument, just an agenda. And, by your own admission*, you're not interested in a reasonable debate. So, forgive me for not wasting any more of my time.

R.

* "There is no desire on my part to want to listen, I don't give a fuck. I don't care that you think I'm wrong. Because it feels right, and that's what matters to me"

Fretwired

breakstuff said:

Fretwired said:

Stand by your beds ...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/a-pornographer-and-atheist-explains-why-the-science-guys-shirt-crash-landed/#.VGkWdZ0K9k5.facebook

Calm down dear.

It's only a shirt.

To me and you it's only a shirt .. to others it's a chance to grab five minutes of fame in their otherwise grey, boring lives and pillory and troll a man for wearing a tasteless shirt. I mean it was purple .. totally clashed with his tattoos .. purple was so 2012. Why do feminists have no dress sense ...

Drew_TNBD

robinbowes said:

You don't have an argument, just an agenda. And, by your own admission*, you're not interested in a reasonable debate. So, forgive me for not wasting any more of my time.

R.

* "There is no desire on my part to want to listen, I don't give a fuck. I don't care that you think I'm wrong. Because it feels right, and that's what matters to me"

Just because you wont deign to actually act like a person who respects others viewpoints doesn't mean my argument is null and void. See, all the criticism you're throwing at me equally applies to yourself. You're just too blind or dumb to see it.

Not wanting to listen is not an agenda. It is a lack of an agenda. Not giving a fuck is not an agenda. It is a reaction to others with an agenda. Not caring that you think I'm wrong is not an agenda. It is frustration and apathy brought on by SJW's like yourself. Believing what feels right.... confidence in my own ability to think for myself.

Sorry about that!!

robinbowes

To be clear, I respect your viewpoint. I just think you're wrong.

R.

Snap

aah, he's just a scientist goon, probably thinks the t shirt is ace (its shite) and all that, and probably didn't give it a second thought, other than, this t shirt is great, I love it.

the thought that it supposedly objectifies women, might offend (FFS get a grip) some people, I am sure, didn't even register.

In the same way that most boffins don't give much thought to what they wear, or what people think. He'd probably cklass it in the same box as his Batman or Superman t shirts.

I find all this high and mighty self righteous over extrapolation of a gon wearing a shite t shirt tiresome. There's a lot more important things going on in the world.

The real problem is, too many people like to vociferously get on high horses and castigate all and sundry.

I do think we are getting over sensitive.

I'm a scientist by education and early career. In my experience, most if not all the women in science were really ugly. That really disappointed me at university. So, any move to encourage more women into science, and dilute the ugly coefficient mus surely be a good thing. No?

Drew_TNBD

robinbowes said:

To be clear, I respect your viewpoint. I just think you're wrong.

R.

Pretty much likewise to be honest. For all my guffawing, piss-taking, and strong language, I don't disrespect your (or anyone's) viewpoint. I just don't agree, and I have evidence and reasoning to support my disagreement. What does brush me up the wrong way is when that disagreement is painted as misogyny like you did earlier, and "WOT BOUT TEH MENZ!!" like UnclePsychosis did earlier.

Neither of those are productive, and are symptomatic of the whole divide over these issues.

guitarfishbay

But what about the Benz?

robinbowes

Drew_fx said:

robinbowes said:

To be clear, I respect your viewpoint. I just think you're wrong.

R.

Pretty much likewise to be honest. For all my guffawing, piss-taking, and strong language, I don't disrespect your (or anyone's) viewpoint. I just don't agree, and I have evidence and reasoning to support my disagreement. What does brush me up the wrong way is when that disagreement is painted as misogyny like you did earlier, and "WOT BOUT TEH MENZ!!" like UnclePsychosis did earlier.

Neither of those are productive, and are symptomatic of the whole divide over these issues.

Respect for that. Thanks.

I would point out though that, regardless of the issue, you're setting yourself up to not be taken seriously when you state things like "There is no desire on my part to want to listen, I don't give a fuck. I don't care that you think I'm wrong" and your .sig says "No matter what you say here, I will distort and twist it to try to wind you up.".

You can't play the angry card and then moan when people won't engage with you reasonably.

R.

chillidoggy

I love this thread!

Drew_TNBD

robinbowes said:

Drew_fx said:

robinbowes said:

To be clear, I respect your viewpoint. I just think you're wrong.

R.

Pretty much likewise to be honest. For all my guffawing, piss-taking, and strong language, I don't disrespect your (or anyone's) viewpoint. I just don't agree, and I have evidence and reasoning to support my disagreement. What does brush me up the wrong way is when that disagreement is painted as misogyny like you did earlier, and "WOT BOUT TEH MENZ!!" like UnclePsychosis did earlier.

Neither of those are productive, and are symptomatic of the whole divide over these issues.

Respect for that. Thanks.

I would point out though that, regardless of the issue, you're setting yourself up to not be taken seriously when you state things like "There is no desire on my part to want to listen, I don't give a fuck. I don't care that you think I'm wrong" and your .sig says "No matter what you say here, I will distort and twist it to try to wind you up.".

You can't play the angry card and then moan when people won't engage with you reasonably.

R.

I understand your point, and it has merit. But please also understand that I've been mocked and vilified and poked and prodded and facepalm-stalked on this website for sometime; because of my outspoken views, the way I communicate (which isn't disimilar to at least 50% of the rest of the forum), and the particular disagreements I have with some of this stuff.

No surprise then that I'm fairly churlish about what you termed earlier as "reasonable debate" - very often it is not reasonable debate, and is just an excuse to mob and hound people into submission.

Not that I'm unique in this respect - other people have experienced similar treatment when holding differing views, and there are plenty of people who are increasingly becoming exasperated because of it.

Drew_TNBD

^ And no, that isn't a "WOE IS ME!!!!" post. Just a bit of context