Labour MP Shot and Stabbed!!

hugbot

I wonder if we're actually going to know anything publically about his motives before the trial? I dont imagine the police let suspects issue press statements from prison.

Ro_S

some articles in response . . . 

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/17/outrage-daily-star-newspaper-links-gunman-brexit/

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/16/remain-campaigners-rush-blame-brexit/

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/17/project-mourn-remains-dirty-politicking-has-hit-an-all-time-low/

http://www.infowars.com/the-political-establishment-will-exploit-the-murder-of-jo-cox-to-kill-brexit/

Chalky

lloyd;1114370" said:

Cirrus said:

I absolutely don't want to get into a heated debate about that aspect of it or the morality of or what constitutes justice on this thread, and I totally take both your points on board. I suppose my own view is that for it to be fair and widely accepted by all corners of society, it's better if it's carried out by people who on paper are removed emotionally/ personally from the people involved in the incident, and that it's the result of considered deliberation of all the facts rather than a heat of the moment decision. If my fiancee was killed for example, I'd absolutely want to kill the person who did it no matter what their motivation. That would be an act of emotion and vengeance rather than one of logic and justice, I think, and one of the reasons I'm glad most people don't have guns in this country.

I agree it's not black and white, they are always shades of grey, but if you'll forgive my idealism, that's my view on the matter.





It's a tough one isn't it?

I think we've got the balance a bit wrong away from the victims in dealing with crime personally, sentencing seems low for some crimes and too high for others-rapes and violent crimes getting low tariffs IMO with some crimes involving money and property being too high.

I'd like victims and/or their families to be given a better voice in what they want to happen to criminals in all crimes, but personally, for me if you kill somebody, I think you deserve to be killed.

I'm not sure that criminals (in particular murderers) should be judged by wider society who has no idea how their crimes hurt those involved.

I agree that it't a good thing that there aren't more guns in society.

Don't be so bloody stupid. We already have the ridiculous victim statements.

X was killed and the victim statement is a lengthy eloquent and heartfelt statement of how X's death has hurt so many so deeply.

Y was killed and the victim statement is a short statement by his widow.

By your stupid logic the killer of X should receive different sentencing to the killer of Y. Nonsensical.

Thankfully I guess you will never be in a position requiring judgement.

Paul_C

Ro_S said:

So the Daily Star (owned by a UKIP donor) posted a headline to connect the murder of an MP with the Brexit campaign - maybe it's been done deliberately so as to raise the ire of Brexit supporters and increase their resolve to vote leave ?

randella

@Ro_S Stop stirring the shit to further your own political agenda. It's nauseating.

littlegreenman

Ro_S said:

Some stuff

Breitbart and infowars? Is that the best you have to offer, Really?

lloyd

Chalky;1114759" said:

[quote="lloyd;1114370"]Cirrus said:

I absolutely don't want to get into a heated debate about that aspect of it or the morality of or what constitutes justice on this thread, and I totally take both your points on board. I suppose my own view is that for it to be fair and widely accepted by all corners of society, it's better if it's carried out by people who on paper are removed emotionally/ personally from the people involved in the incident, and that it's the result of considered deliberation of all the facts rather than a heat of the moment decision. If my fiancee was killed for example, I'd absolutely want to kill the person who did it no matter what their motivation. That would be an act of emotion and vengeance rather than one of logic and justice, I think, and one of the reasons I'm glad most people don't have guns in this country.

I agree it's not black and white, they are always shades of grey, but if you'll forgive my idealism, that's my view on the matter.





It's a tough one isn't it?

I think we've got the balance a bit wrong away from the victims in dealing with crime personally, sentencing seems low for some crimes and too high for others-rapes and violent crimes getting low tariffs IMO with some crimes involving money and property being too high.

I'd like victims and/or their families to be given a better voice in what they want to happen to criminals in all crimes, but personally, for me if you kill somebody, I think you deserve to be killed.

I'm not sure that criminals (in particular murderers) should be judged by wider society who has no idea how their crimes hurt those involved.

I agree that it't a good thing that there aren't more guns in society.

Don't be so bloody stupid. We already have the ridiculous victim statements.

X was killed and the victim statement is a lengthy eloquent and heartfelt statement of how X's death has hurt so many so deeply.

Y was killed and the victim statement is a short statement by his widow.

By your stupid logic the killer of X should receive different sentencing to the killer of Y. Nonsensical.

Thankfully I guess you will never be in a position requiring judgement.[/quote]

I mean on an overall basis rather than case by case, that's not clear in my post.

I wouldn't have victims involved in cases their loved ones got killed.

I just think that sentencing guidelines should be influenced by people that have been victims, rather than the law makers deciding with no understanding of how the crimes affect people.

UnclePsychosis

This character was absolutely delighted to see those headlines and have a go at Remain over this. What a weirdo.

PolarityMan

i think that this attack has legitimately shocked people. The fact that it comes in the midst of heated political campaigning, the fact that the victim was a woman, the fact the victim was an elected representative of her constituency, the fact that the murder was carried out not by an Islamic terrorist but by a white man in his 50s. These are all factors that I think bteak through the desensitisation that I think has been building up around terrorist attacks over the past 5 years.

iseverynamegone

Compare the headlines for this woman with those of Lee Rigby.

I'd say I haven't seen a picture of a noose on the front page of the mail yet this week. A close up of the fella who did it with the knife in his hands covered in blood. ?

Both tragically killed by fuckin idealist nut jobs in awful circumstances.

You could just imagine Farrage if this was another Rigby rather than a white supremacist .

Ro_S

PolarityMan said:

i think that this attack has legitimately shocked people. The fact that it comes in the midst of heated political campaigning, the fact that the victim was a woman, the fact the victim was an elected representative of her constituency, the fact that the murder was carried out not by an Islamic terrorist but by a white man in his 50s. These are all factors that I think bteak through the desensitisation that I think has been building up around terrorist attacks over the past 5 years.

The attack on that MP called Timms was only a few years ago.  I don't recall much being made about that.  He didn't die, but it was a serious knife attack and it occurred at his constituency surgery. He easily could've died.  Maybe it was because he was a man and unattractive that not much of a fuss was made.

At present it's not entirely clear whether Jo Cox was specifically targeted or whether she intervened in an altercation.  

The arrested man seems to have had hygiene- related OCD as well as possibly other mental issues.   It's a possibility that he got involved in an altercation with someone - maybe someone was touching him - and he flipped and pulled a weapon out.  This doesn't preclude him from having white supremacist ideas.   

hugbot

Thats quite a coincidence. The guy (who happens to be a neo nazi extremist) turns up at an MPs surgery - (an event where in MP is easiest to find as they're expected  to be there at that time) carrying weapon(s - plural) he'd homemade ahead of time  (which he was not planning on using) and ends up unloading two shots into the wrong person (on the ground) who happens to intervene. 

 

iseverynamegone

It's a good job the MP in question didn't have a history of human rights campaigning or support for say the Syrian refugees, or it would be really really weird.

Mkjackary

Ro_S said:

PolarityMan said:

i think that this attack has legitimately shocked people. The fact that it comes in the midst of heated political campaigning, the fact that the victim was a woman, the fact the victim was an elected representative of her constituency, the fact that the murder was carried out not by an Islamic terrorist but by a white man in his 50s. These are all factors that I think bteak through the desensitisation that I think has been building up around terrorist attacks over the past 5 years.

The attack on that MP called Timms was only a few years ago.  I don't recall much being made about that.  He didn't die, but it was a serious knife attack and it occurred at his constituency surgery. He easily could've died.  Maybe it was because he was a man and unattractive that not much of a fuss was made.

At present it's not entirely clear whether Jo Cox was specifically targeted or whether she intervened in an altercation.  

The arrested man seems to have had hygiene- related OCD as well as possibly other mental issues.   It's a possibility that he got involved in an altercation with someone - maybe someone was touching him - and he flipped and pulled a weapon out.  This doesn't preclude him from having white supremacist ideas.   

Shooting 3 times and then going on to stabbing 7 times is an act of passion, not an act of retaliation/reaction. The chances of everything happening the way it has, just by chance, is so small that it can be ignored, if she were not an MP she wouldn't have been targeted.

Mkjackary

Breitbart news is cool and is good at challenging things like modern feminism and political correctness, it has good articles and makes good points. Milo Yiannapolis works for them I believe.

However it is the kind of place you don't go for news, you just go to get an incredibly bias news agency to agree with your right wing views.

Like the guardian, but right wing. Actually who am I kidding , maybe not quite as bad as the guardian, but then again, not much is as bad as the guardian.

Paul_C

On reflection, the two small children who have lost their Mummy and the husband who not only has to cope with that but with the loss of his wife are the things we as a society should be rallying behind.
Finding ways to engage with anyone/everyone holding extreme views so as to try to soften them before they reach a point of no return should far outweigh the laying of blame and the pointing of fingers.

Fretwired

randella said:

For something that was initially designed to heal rifts in a political party, this poxy referendum is causing deep, troubling, upsetting division in British society.

It was nothing of the sort. It was to nullify the UKIP and get David Cameron elected as PM.

Axe_meister

And to draw a line under the Tories biggest issue

Fretwired

Axe_meister said:

And to draw a line under the Tories biggest issue

It will never draw a line under the Tories biggest issue .. ever.

randella

Axe_meister said:

And to draw a line under the Tories biggest issue

Their biggest issue being the split over Europe, which Cameron attempted to ameliorate with a referendum. 

I feel we're splitting hairs here.