Not looking good for Queenie

HAL9000

Do I need to learn new words now for the national anthem? (Sigh)

bertie

HAL9000 said:

Do I need to learn new words now for the national anthem? (Sigh)

well two that I can think of 

King  Him

JezWynd

bertie said:

HAL9000 said:

Do I need to learn new words now for the national anthem? (Sigh)

well two that I can think of 

King  Him

Three cheers for the sharpest tool in the box!

DrCornelius

Emp_Fab said:

TeleMaster said:

Tannin said:

@beed84 I came to the same conclusion - and that was without even bothering to watch the video!

Unfortunately I had to watch one of his videos to realise this. Consider yourself spared from being exposed to this purposefully divisive, self promoting man. 

I've watched many of his videos and I don't draw that conclusion.  I'm a leftie too.  I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of it is, in my opinion, the truth - unvarnished or adjusted for any particular audience.  I do find that he is frequently misunderstood by people who have a preformed opinion of him and are not willing to see past that and try to understand the points he is trying to make.

I’ve watched a few of his videos this morning and like you I’d consider myself left wing but quite traditional for want of a better word . I’m liking a lot of what the bloke says so far - maybe it’s a middle aged thing !

AsterixTG

Emp_Fab said:

TeleMaster said:

Tannin said:

@beed84 I came to the same conclusion - and that was without even bothering to watch the video!

Unfortunately I had to watch one of his videos to realise this. Consider yourself spared from being exposed to this purposefully divisive, self promoting man. 

I've watched many of his videos and I don't draw that conclusion.  I'm a leftie too.  I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of it is, in my opinion, the truth - unvarnished or adjusted for any particular audience.  I do find that he is frequently misunderstood by people who have a preformed opinion of him and are not willing to see past that and try to understand the points he is trying to make.

So what you're saying is...

(Cathy Newman, for reference, just in case...)

TeleMaster

Emp_Fab said:

TeleMaster said:

Tannin said:

@beed84 I came to the same conclusion - and that was without even bothering to watch the video!

Unfortunately I had to watch one of his videos to realise this. Consider yourself spared from being exposed to this purposefully divisive, self promoting man. 

I've watched many of his videos and I don't draw that conclusion.  I'm a leftie too.  I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of it is, in my opinion, the truth - unvarnished or adjusted for any particular audience.  I do find that he is frequently misunderstood by people who have a preformed opinion of him and are not willing to see past that and try to understand the points he is trying to make.

I do not misunderstand him, I see and hear him very clearly. And it is your, his truth. Not the truth.

He's the darling of the alt right which he seemingly has no issue with, for a reason. He's not as smart as he or you think he is. 

https://twitter.com/steinkobbe/status/1009716701385101313

AsterixTG

TeleMaster said:

Emp_Fab said:

TeleMaster said:

Tannin said:

@beed84 I came to the same conclusion - and that was without even bothering to watch the video!

Unfortunately I had to watch one of his videos to realise this. Consider yourself spared from being exposed to this purposefully divisive, self promoting man. 

I've watched many of his videos and I don't draw that conclusion.  I'm a leftie too.  I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of it is, in my opinion, the truth - unvarnished or adjusted for any particular audience.  I do find that he is frequently misunderstood by people who have a preformed opinion of him and are not willing to see past that and try to understand the points he is trying to make.

I do not misunderstand him. And it is your, his truth. Not the truth.

He's the darling of the alt right for a reason. 

You need to keep up mate - we're in a Post-Truth world where everyone has their own so no one has need for the actual thing as it's now irrelevant.

Alt-right. lol.

digitalscream

Emp_Fab said:

TeleMaster said:

Tannin said:

@beed84 I came to the same conclusion - and that was without even bothering to watch the video!

Unfortunately I had to watch one of his videos to realise this. Consider yourself spared from being exposed to this purposefully divisive, self promoting man. 

I've watched many of his videos and I don't draw that conclusion.  I'm a leftie too.  I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of it is, in my opinion, the truth - unvarnished or adjusted for any particular audience.  I do find that he is frequently misunderstood by people who have a preformed opinion of him and are not willing to see past that and try to understand the points he is trying to make.

Indeed. The way I see him is...it's very easy to agree with him on some things but strongly disagree on others, because he (almost) always gives references and explains his logic rather than just stating opinions and demanding that people agree with him.

For me, it's an exercise in listening to the messages rather than judging the messenger.

bertie

JezWynd said:

bertie said:

HAL9000 said:

Do I need to learn new words now for the national anthem? (Sigh)

well two that I can think of 

King  Him

Three cheers for the sharpest tool in the box!

I resent that

Im not sharp

AsterixTG

TeleMaster said:

Emp_Fab said:

TeleMaster said:

Tannin said:

@beed84 I came to the same conclusion - and that was without even bothering to watch the video!

Unfortunately I had to watch one of his videos to realise this. Consider yourself spared from being exposed to this purposefully divisive, self promoting man. 

I've watched many of his videos and I don't draw that conclusion.  I'm a leftie too.  I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of it is, in my opinion, the truth - unvarnished or adjusted for any particular audience.  I do find that he is frequently misunderstood by people who have a preformed opinion of him and are not willing to see past that and try to understand the points he is trying to make.

I do not misunderstand him, I see and hear him very clearly. And it is your, his truth. Not the truth.

He's the darling of the alt right which he seemingly has no issue with, for a reason. He's not as smart as he or you think he is. 

https://twitter.com/steinkobbe/status/1009716701385101313

re-quoted as you edited after my first comment.

I'd not seen that clip before.

The Aussie guy fails to give qualifying details such as the religious beliefs of the bakers and the fact  they were backed up by law, in the end, against known activists kicking up shit to try and prove a point. A good example of the hierarchy of victimhood being tested though.

He then switches to quite a different example, yet when presented with the different argument, Peterson understands that in that instance he was wrong and accepts the argument put forward.

Reminds me a bit of the Joe Rogan podcast with Sir Roger Penrose, I'd class him as quite brainy... he said 'I don't know' lots - I find that often happens that the smarter the person, the more open to debate they are, have no problem with admitting when they're wrong when presented with a better argument, and happy to admit when the don't know something.

TeleMaster

digitalscream said:

Emp_Fab said:

TeleMaster said:

Tannin said:

@beed84 I came to the same conclusion - and that was without even bothering to watch the video!

Unfortunately I had to watch one of his videos to realise this. Consider yourself spared from being exposed to this purposefully divisive, self promoting man. 

I've watched many of his videos and I don't draw that conclusion.  I'm a leftie too.  I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of it is, in my opinion, the truth - unvarnished or adjusted for any particular audience.  I do find that he is frequently misunderstood by people who have a preformed opinion of him and are not willing to see past that and try to understand the points he is trying to make.

Indeed. The way I see him is...it's very easy to agree with him on some things but strongly disagree on others, because he (almost) always gives references and explains his logic rather than just stating opinions and demanding that people agree with him.

For me, it's an exercise in listening to the messages rather than judging the messenger.

For me, I'm thinking about the motives, and what they're looking to achieve with X. Are they using one thing to gain influence with this other thing. 

But in general, and it's an interesting point, if the message is more important than the messenger, applying the same logic, people shouldn't have an issue with attending a cooking lesson/seminar/reading a cookbook with/by (mad example time) Abu Hamza who makes a mean lasagne regardless of his links to terrorism, or anyone else, regardless of what they've done because it's an exercise in listening to the message rather than judging the messenger. Right?

Or is it really that it's not the case that the messenger is irrelevant, and we all pick and choose who you would and wouldn't listen to based on who they are, and what they've done based on our own moral compass and the lines that we chose for ourselves? 

TeleMaster

AsterixTG said:

TeleMaster said:

Emp_Fab said:

TeleMaster said:

Tannin said:

@beed84 I came to the same conclusion - and that was without even bothering to watch the video!

Unfortunately I had to watch one of his videos to realise this. Consider yourself spared from being exposed to this purposefully divisive, self promoting man. 

I've watched many of his videos and I don't draw that conclusion.  I'm a leftie too.  I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of it is, in my opinion, the truth - unvarnished or adjusted for any particular audience.  I do find that he is frequently misunderstood by people who have a preformed opinion of him and are not willing to see past that and try to understand the points he is trying to make.

I do not misunderstand him, I see and hear him very clearly. And it is your, his truth. Not the truth.

He's the darling of the alt right which he seemingly has no issue with, for a reason. He's not as smart as he or you think he is. 

https://twitter.com/steinkobbe/status/1009716701385101313

re-quoted as you edited after my first comment.

I'd not seen that clip before.

The Aussie guy fails to give qualifying details such as the religious beliefs of the bakers and the fact  they were backed up by law, in the end, against known activists kicking up shit to try and prove a point. A good example of the hierarchy of victimhood being tested though.

He then switches to quite a different example, yet when presented with the different argument, Peterson understands that in that instance he was wrong and accepts the argument put forward.

Reminds me a bit of the Joe Rogan podcast with Sir Roger Penrose, I'd class him as quite brainy... he said 'I don't know' lots - I find that often happens that the smarter the person, the more open to debate they are, have no problem with admitting when they're wrong when presented with a better argument, and happy to admit when the don't know something.

Whatever happened with that case, and whatever the law is at that time (often behind public and social opinion) is not relevant, the analogy is perfectly applicable. He even accepts it, which in all fairness is commendable. But more to the point, it does show that Peterson does not think these things through as carefully as you might expect.

That's my position. And tbh, this thread is not about him and I'm conscious that people might get annoyed with the derail brought about by his videos being posted so I think I'll leave it there. 

AsterixTG

TeleMaster said:

AsterixTG said:

TeleMaster said:

Emp_Fab said:

TeleMaster said:

Tannin said:

@beed84 I came to the same conclusion - and that was without even bothering to watch the video!

Unfortunately I had to watch one of his videos to realise this. Consider yourself spared from being exposed to this purposefully divisive, self promoting man. 

I've watched many of his videos and I don't draw that conclusion.  I'm a leftie too.  I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of it is, in my opinion, the truth - unvarnished or adjusted for any particular audience.  I do find that he is frequently misunderstood by people who have a preformed opinion of him and are not willing to see past that and try to understand the points he is trying to make.

I do not misunderstand him, I see and hear him very clearly. And it is your, his truth. Not the truth.

He's the darling of the alt right which he seemingly has no issue with, for a reason. He's not as smart as he or you think he is. 

https://twitter.com/steinkobbe/status/1009716701385101313

re-quoted as you edited after my first comment.

I'd not seen that clip before.

The Aussie guy fails to give qualifying details such as the religious beliefs of the bakers and the fact  they were backed up by law, in the end, against known activists kicking up shit to try and prove a point. A good example of the hierarchy of victimhood being tested though.

He then switches to quite a different example, yet when presented with the different argument, Peterson understands that in that instance he was wrong and accepts the argument put forward.

Reminds me a bit of the Joe Rogan podcast with Sir Roger Penrose, I'd class him as quite brainy... he said 'I don't know' lots - I find that often happens that the smarter the person, the more open to debate they are, have no problem with admitting when they're wrong when presented with a better argument, and happy to admit when the don't know something.

Whatever happened with that case, and whatever the law is at that time (often behind public and social opinion) is not relevant, the analogy is perfectly applicable. He even accepts it, which in all fairness is commendable. But more to the point, it does show that Peterson does not think these things through as carefully as you might expect.

That's my position. And tbh, this thread is not about him and I'm conscious that people might get annoyed with the derail brought about by his videos being posted so I think I'll leave it there. 

Ok - I think he was ambushed, given half the information and it's unfair to use that clip as an example - as to the 'whatever' and it's relevance, you posted it.

The not-clever thing he did was venture an opinion without being in command of the full facts. He should have said. 'I don't know'. Had he done that, then the 'gotcha' tactic of switching it to race wouldn't have worked, but then you wouldn't have posted it.

And, as I said, I'm not a fan boy, he does get lost at times, but he's a rare contrary voice in the public eye when everyone else submits to the insanity that is much of modern political correctness and for that alone I'll listen to what he has to say, add that to wider sources, then make my own mind up - as everyone should. I'll leave it at that too.

mrkb

Every time I hear “King Charles” my mind automatically adds “Spaniel” on the end…..I’m waiting for the first red top to use that in a front page headline.

Have just been to Leeds University today for an open day and no signs of mourning up there, and avoided the services on the way home to prevent me falling out with the hand sanitizer machine. Normality is returning to the real world.

darthed1981

mrkb said:

Every time I hear “King Charles” my mind automatically adds “Spaniel” on the end…..I’m waiting for the first red top to use that in a front page headline.

Don't ruin it.  I've got a joke in my back pocket for when anyone at work says "I wonder if King Charles will be any different" then I say "I hear he is keeping spaniels instead of corgis".

Kittyfrisk

I reckon they should break with historical precedent & get a proper national hero on the banknotes...

Deadman

We laid flowers today at our town hall with my wife, which also gave me chance to honour an old friend killed in Iraq in 2008. It was her idea and I was quite emotional which surprised me as I’m normally completely numb and even immune to such things and it’s made me feel pretty callous over the years. RIP QE.

beed84

DrCornelius said:

beed84 said:

digitalscream said:

While I appreciate that there are going to be a number of people in this thread who don't appreciate Jordan Peterson, I think this video from him might be an exception that hits all the right notes:

Sorry to be that guy, but he’s possibly the profoundest-sounding charlatan on the planet. As I've seen in other videos, he utters a hodgepodge of stuff without making a distinct or meaningful point – it sounds clever but it's mostly irrelevant. In this video, he doesn't answer the question nor does he say anything particularly remarkable either. But that's just my humble opinion.

I don’t know much about JP other than my daughter can’t stand him. I watched the video and shared it without realising @digitalscream had done the same - sorry !

What I liked was the warning on how easily things can get skewed with a republic / presidential system and how having a respected monarch helps keep a lid on the worst excesses of party politics (at least that’s how I saw it)

If anyone gets something from what he says then that's not necessarily a bad thing. But FWIW I personally prefer a quick sentence like yours opposed to a 15 minute incomprehensible ramble. Either way, I'm with your daughter and can't abide him. And I have tried. Horses for courses I suppose.

Sarge

Can we. rename this thread to:
"I'm not a Royalist, but... "

Emp_Fab

beed84 said:

DrCornelius said:

beed84 said:

digitalscream said:

While I appreciate that there are going to be a number of people in this thread who don't appreciate Jordan Peterson, I think this video from him might be an exception that hits all the right notes:

Sorry to be that guy, but he’s possibly the profoundest-sounding charlatan on the planet. As I've seen in other videos, he utters a hodgepodge of stuff without making a distinct or meaningful point – it sounds clever but it's mostly irrelevant. In this video, he doesn't answer the question nor does he say anything particularly remarkable either. But that's just my humble opinion.

I don’t know much about JP other than my daughter can’t stand him. I watched the video and shared it without realising @digitalscream had done the same - sorry !

What I liked was the warning on how easily things can get skewed with a republic / presidential system and how having a respected monarch helps keep a lid on the worst excesses of party politics (at least that’s how I saw it)

If anyone gets something from what he says then that's not necessarily a bad thing. But FWIW I personally prefer a quick sentence like yours opposed to a 15 minute incomprehensible ramble. Either way, I'm with your daughter and can't abide him. And I have tried. Horses for courses I suppose.

I've never found him to be incomprehensible.  It's how clear and logical his explanations are that appeals to me.  He does take a couple of replays to get some things he's on about as the guy is a clinical psychologist and obviously miles ahead of most of us when it comes to discussing the human condition.  I had a friend slag him off the other day because (insert random group of unpleasant idiots) hold him high on a pedestal.  She couldn't grasp that I wouldn't change my opinion of the man based on who some of his other supporters might be.