Not looking good for Queenie

Dominic

We could ...........
 " I'm not a Royalist  but I've just realised that the Royal family actually stands for a lot more than I first thought."
Personally , I don't understand why so many seem to be anti-Royal ......they are completely innocuous ,don't have any legislative or Political power nor the power to tax,levy,tarrif etc etc 
I don't see how they can hurt anybody.
All they are is a living History museum , a spectacle of Pageantry and Pomp,a Tourist attraction and World trade Ambassadors.
You don't take offence at a British Trade Delegation , local Morris Dancers or Theatre Group .......they are the same .

OR ,ARE  THEY ? 

The answer is one that nobody here has pointed out ;  The Monarch of the United Kingdom is also The Head Honcho of the Church of England .That is a big deal . It's the National Religion .The two have been inextricably linked since HenryV111 and are a now a Siamese Twin ......I doubt that one could survive without the other in this co-dependent marriage.
 The Church is more powerful and richer than the Monarchy but the Monarchy created the Church.
For the British public to seek the demise of the Monarchy  is like Italian Catholics planning to topple the Pope and  the power of Vatican City. 
 When the Church fades away so will the Monarchy.
 Sunday attendances aren't great apparently ( I'm not Cof E ) but I think they've got plenty of time to go yet .

Grumpyrocker

Powers of the Monarchy are used, often by the government and prime minister. And those that aren't used result in a vacuum in our constitution. The Monarchy is not just the king/queen it is a complex set of laws and conventions. The Monarch and Monarchy should not be confused as the same thing.

boogieman

Dominic said:

 When the Church fades away so will the Monarchy.
 Sunday attendances aren't great apparently ( I'm not Cof E ) but I think they've got plenty of time to go yet .

From what I’ve seen the CofE is slowly dying on its arse. I live in a village of 3000 that looks like it’s dropped out of an Agatha Christie novel, full of older people that you’d think would mostly be church goers. The guy who lives next door is some sort of officer of the church…I’ve never been a churchy person and don’t really understand what he does. He and his wife go every Sunday but told me they get a maximum of 40 people attending, most of them 70 plus. I think they get more people through the door during the week, but just to look at the archeology of the building. 

But, I don’t think the link between church and monarchy being mutually reliant really stands up in this age. The fact that there’s been so much public display of grief and emotion proves to me that there’s still a real desire for a monarch in the U.K. It provides a stability for the population in some people’s minds. It’s a solid link to our past for others. It’s part of our heritage and tradition for yet more. Maybe the turbulent times we’re going through right now have exaggerated the outpouring of emotions; it’s like the queen dying is yet another Jenga piece that has been knocked out of daily life, on top of what successive governments have already been pulling away for decades. Charlie is already gaining a lot of popularity, something I honestly didn’t expect as Liz was always going to be a massive act to follow. William and Kate will be even more popular I suspect. I can’t see any change to a presidency happening in our lifetimes, or even ever. The monarchy does need streamlining though, we need to get rid of a lot of the sponges on the Civil List and open more of the palaces to the public so we can actually see our country’s heritage.  

guitartango

Anyway, back to the Queen. It's sad to see her final journey through Scotland, reminds me of 25 years ago.

p90fool

guitartango said:

Anyway, back to the Queen. It's sad to see her final journey through Scotland, reminds me of 25 years ago.

Go on, I'll bite...

Kittyfrisk

guitartango said:

Anyway, back to the Queen. It's sad to see her final journey through Scotland, reminds me of 25 years ago.

You toured Scotland in a hearse 25 years ago?

Gilly

Dominic said:

We could ...........
 " I'm not a Royalist  but I've just realised that the Royal family actually stands for a lot more than I first thought."
Personally , I don't understand why so many seem to be anti-Royal ......they are completely innocuous ,don't have any legislative or Political power nor the power to tax,levy,tarrif etc etc 
I don't see how they can hurt anybody.
All they are is a living History museum , a spectacle of Pageantry and Pomp,a Tourist attraction and World trade Ambassadors.
You don't take offence at a British Trade Delegation , local Morris Dancers or Theatre Group .......they are the same .

OR ,ARE  THEY ? 

The answer is one that nobody here has pointed out ;  The Monarch of the United Kingdom is also The Head Honcho of the Church of England .That is a big deal . It's the National Religion .The two have been inextricably linked since HenryV111 and are a now a Siamese Twin ......I doubt that one could survive without the other in this co-dependent marriage.
 The Church is more powerful and richer than the Monarchy but the Monarchy created the Church.
For the British public to seek the demise of the Monarchy  is like Italian Catholics planning to topple the Pope and  the power of Vatican City. 
 When the Church fades away so will the Monarchy.
 Sunday attendances aren't great apparently ( I'm not Cof E ) but I think they've got plenty of time to go yet .

They’re the living embodiment of the Establishment and the idea that certain people have more entitlement to wealth and power purely by virtue of their birthright. 

To anyone who believes that people are born equal and should be judged by their actions and achievements the whole idea of the monarchy is anathema. 

The Church is just another branch of this establishment, helping to maintain the status quo and persuading the poor that it’s their lot and they should be grateful for what they get. All while piously claiming to be morally superior (while abusing their power in countless ways). 

I’d get rid of the lot of them. With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

GoFish

Dominic said:

You don't take offence at a British Trade Delegation , local Morris Dancers or Theatre Group .......they are the same .

My fist gig was to see a Black Sabbath tribute act. We had tickets. Thre was a late change of schedule or mix up and 20 of us looked very incongruous at a local Morris Dancers show.

I say this by way of declaring that I am quite offended, not to mention triggered, at any mention of Morris dancing even several decades later.

DrCornelius

With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

I think the queen is a prime example of someone not corrupted by power and I think the fact the royal family grow up ‘learning’ how to manage that responsibility is key.

Donald Trump is a good example of what happens when you get someone without the grounding and lifelong training parachuted into a position of real power.

Gilly

DrCornelius said:

With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

I think the queen is a prime example of someone not corrupted by power and I think the fact the royal family grow up ‘learning’ how to manage that responsibility is key.

Donald Trump is a good example of what happens when you get someone without the grounding and lifelong training parachuted into a position of real power.

Which is one of the reasons why so many people respect her, unlike her feckless family. However the institution she represents doesn’t deserve any respect imo.

GoFish

DrCornelius said:

With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

I think the queen is a prime example of someone not corrupted by power and I think the fact the royal family grow up ‘learning’ how to manage that responsibility is key.

Donald Trump is a good example of what happens when you get someone without the grounding and lifelong training parachuted into a position of real power.

You've just to to look at her younger son as a pretty stark counter-example. And her uncle, come to think of it.

DrCornelius

GoFish said:

DrCornelius said:

With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

I think the queen is a prime example of someone not corrupted by power and I think the fact the royal family grow up ‘learning’ how to manage that responsibility is key.

Donald Trump is a good example of what happens when you get someone without the grounding and lifelong training parachuted into a position of real power.

You've just to to look at her younger son as a pretty stark counter-example. And her uncle, come to think of it.

Agreed but I think that idiot was never really expected to take the throne so maybe he skipped the lessons on humility and behaviour that Charles and William had !

Offset

DrCornelius said:

Donald Trump is a good example of what happens when you get someone without the grounding and lifelong training parachuted into a position of real power.

Way too polite.  Trump is a good example of what happens when you get someone who is a thorough c*nt parachuted into a position of power.

mrkb

guitartango said:

Anyway, back to the Queen. It's sad to see her final journey through Scotland, reminds me of 25 years ago.

Are you having bad “Candle in the wind” flashbacks?! Is there a class action suit that you can join to get compensation?

guitartango

mrkb said:

guitartango said:

Anyway, back to the Queen. It's sad to see her final journey through Scotland, reminds me of 25 years ago.

Are you having bad “Candle in the wind” flashbacks?! Is there a class action suit that you can join to get compensation?

Would it get me about 6K? Need a new guitar and large amp just to torture @munckee

TeleMaster

DrCornelius said:

With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

I think the queen is a prime example of someone not corrupted by power and I think the fact the royal family grow up ‘learning’ how to manage that responsibility is key.

She literally used money given to her as a result of taxpayers contributions to bail out her son of a sexual assault case. I don't know about you but to me that stinks. And then there's all the secret lobbying of the government to gain exemption from particular tax arrangements and climate legislation. 

There are some Olympic level mental gymnastics going on to whitewash and saintify this person. 

bloodandtears

Is that her or the institution doing all that? 

DrCornelius

TeleMaster said:

DrCornelius said:

With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

I think the queen is a prime example of someone not corrupted by power and I think the fact the royal family grow up ‘learning’ how to manage that responsibility is key.

She literally used money given to her as a result of taxpayers contributions to bail out her son of a sexual assault case. I don't know about you but to me that stinks. And then there's all the secret lobbying of the government to gain exemption from particular tax arrangements and climate legislation. 

There are some Olympic level mental gymnastics going on to whitewash and saintify this person. 

I’ve already said my piece about Andrew so won’t bore you with a repeat . With regards to your second point , the monarchy runs as a business and I’m sure her advisors do what they can to minimise their costs. Overall the royal family are responsible for a huge net contribution to the nations GDP so I’m happy to cut them a few breaks 

JezWynd

TeleMaster said:

DrCornelius said:

With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

I think the queen is a prime example of someone not corrupted by power and I think the fact the royal family grow up ‘learning’ how to manage that responsibility is key.

She literally used money given to her as a result of taxpayers contributions to bail out her son of a sexual assault case. I don't know about you but to me that stinks. And then there's all the secret lobbying of the government to gain exemption from particular tax arrangements and climate legislation. 

There are some Olympic level mental gymnastics going on to whitewash and saintify this person. 

She was extremely wealthy in her own right, was it not more likely she used her own funds? Splitting hairs I know - she did receive money from the public purse but I'd be very surprised if she used taxpayer money.

Part of the love she received from people was because of her very ordinary family circumstances. The doltish son, the awkward daughter in law (and grand daughter in law). These are situations where everyone can sympathise/criticise from personal experience. It's the Royal Family - every family has its secrets and lies.

TeleMaster

bloodandtears said:

Is that her or the institution doing all that? 

She very much is the institution. You think people are raiding her bank account to pay millions of her sons settlement case without her permission?

Even the Daily Mail is reporting that she footed a chunk of the bill. Sure she did it to help her son, and most mothers would. But this is the Queen, and she is part funded by the taxpayer, so to say that someone who does that is free of corruption just doesn't ring true in my eyes.

I am not here to badmouth anyone, I know she just died. I know people are sensitive and I'm sensitive and conscious of that but I am also interested in balance. And I don't think that the comments above that present her as a saint are balanced.