Not looking good for Queenie

mrkb

DrCornelius said:

TeleMaster said:

DrCornelius said:

With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

I think the queen is a prime example of someone not corrupted by power and I think the fact the royal family grow up ‘learning’ how to manage that responsibility is key.

She literally used money given to her as a result of taxpayers contributions to bail out her son of a sexual assault case. I don't know about you but to me that stinks. And then there's all the secret lobbying of the government to gain exemption from particular tax arrangements and climate legislation. 

There are some Olympic level mental gymnastics going on to whitewash and saintify this person. 

I’ve already said my piece about Andrew so won’t bore you with a repeat . With regards to your second point , the monarchy runs as a business and I’m sure her advisors do what they can to minimise their costs. Overall the royal family are responsible for a huge net contribution to the nations GDP so I’m happy to cut them a few breaks 

How far would you go? If it was your daughter would you feel differently, or would Andrew be allowed free reign for the good of the countries income?

Jalapeno

AFAIK The only Public funding for the Royals is for upkeep of public palaces and funding execution of duties.  The Royal family is minted, don't need to, and wouldn't be so stupid to bail out Andrew from the public purse.

TeleMaster

JezWynd said:

TeleMaster said:

DrCornelius said:

With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

I think the queen is a prime example of someone not corrupted by power and I think the fact the royal family grow up ‘learning’ how to manage that responsibility is key.

She literally used money given to her as a result of taxpayers contributions to bail out her son of a sexual assault case. I don't know about you but to me that stinks. And then there's all the secret lobbying of the government to gain exemption from particular tax arrangements and climate legislation. 

There are some Olympic level mental gymnastics going on to whitewash and saintify this person. 

She was extremely wealthy in her own right, was it not more likely she used her own funds? Splitting hairs I know - she did receive money from the public purse but I'd be very surprised if she used taxpayer money.

Part of the love she received from people was because of her very ordinary family circumstances. The doltish son, the awkward daughter in law (and grand daughter in law). These are situations where everyone can sympathise/criticise from personal experience. It's the Royal Family - every family has its secrets and lies.

Well, how are you going to seperate what is taxpayers and what isn't? There is the sovereign grant which is taxpayers, there are charitable contributions which is public money, the money she earns is as a direct result of her position that she is in because of the taxpayer and the institution, the wealth the family have earned through the empire, through conquests of other royal families centuries ago etc etc. Even the money they have 'earned' is subsidised by the taxpayer. You could argue, why are we paying for the upkeep and refurbishment of their homes if they're just going to use their own money to deal with cases of public embarrassment?

Anyway. I'm just trying to bring some balance not offend. The conversation should never be one sided and ignore the facts. 

DrCornelius

mrkb said:

DrCornelius said:

TeleMaster said:

DrCornelius said:

With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

I think the queen is a prime example of someone not corrupted by power and I think the fact the royal family grow up ‘learning’ how to manage that responsibility is key.

She literally used money given to her as a result of taxpayers contributions to bail out her son of a sexual assault case. I don't know about you but to me that stinks. And then there's all the secret lobbying of the government to gain exemption from particular tax arrangements and climate legislation. 

There are some Olympic level mental gymnastics going on to whitewash and saintify this person. 

I’ve already said my piece about Andrew so won’t bore you with a repeat . With regards to your second point , the monarchy runs as a business and I’m sure her advisors do what they can to minimise their costs. Overall the royal family are responsible for a huge net contribution to the nations GDP so I’m happy to cut them a few breaks 

How far would you go? If it was your daughter would you feel differently, or would Andrew be allowed free reign for the good of the countries income?

I’d be going after Epstein until my (or his) dying day. I think Andrews vanity and lack of awareness meant he was easily sucked in by Epstein and believed that all these young women were queuing up to willingly have sex with him 

SteveRobinson

JezWynd said:

She was extremely wealthy in her own right

But no inheritance tax payable on her estate it seems. Why is that?

DefaultM

Anyone seen the video of Andrew stood with a woman looking at all the tribute flowers, and he touches her arse up?

Emp_Fab

BECAUSE IT'S THE QUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

......AND WE'RE ALL MENTAL !!!

Dominic

Gilly said:

Dominic said:

We could ...........
 " I'm not a Royalist  but I've just realised that the Royal family actually stands for a lot more than I first thought."
Personally , I don't understand why so many seem to be anti-Royal ......they are completely innocuous ,don't have any legislative or Political power nor the power to tax,levy,tarrif etc etc 
I don't see how they can hurt anybody.
All they are is a living History museum , a spectacle of Pageantry and Pomp,a Tourist attraction and World trade Ambassadors.
You don't take offence at a British Trade Delegation , local Morris Dancers or Theatre Group .......they are the same .

OR ,ARE  THEY ? 

The answer is one that nobody here has pointed out ;  The Monarch of the United Kingdom is also The Head Honcho of the Church of England .That is a big deal . It's the National Religion .The two have been inextricably linked since HenryV111 and are a now a Siamese Twin ......I doubt that one could survive without the other in this co-dependent marriage.
 The Church is more powerful and richer than the Monarchy but the Monarchy created the Church.
For the British public to seek the demise of the Monarchy  is like Italian Catholics planning to topple the Pope and  the power of Vatican City. 
 When the Church fades away so will the Monarchy.
 Sunday attendances aren't great apparently ( I'm not Cof E ) but I think they've got plenty of time to go yet .

They’re the living embodiment of the Establishment and the idea that certain people have more entitlement to wealth and power purely by virtue of their birthright. 

To anyone who believes that people are born equal and should be judged by their actions and achievements the whole idea of the monarchy is anathema. 

The Church is just another branch of this establishment, helping to maintain the status quo and persuading the poor that it’s their lot and they should be grateful for what they get. All while piously claiming to be morally superior (while abusing their power in countless ways). 

I’d get rid of the lot of them. With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

Nearly enough likes for a full Politburo Comrade

bertie

DefaultM said:

Anyone seen the video of Andrew stood with a woman looking at all the tribute flowers, and he touches her arse up?

I actually  think it was an aspidistra 

JezWynd

Dominic said:

Gilly said:

Dominic said:

We could ...........
 " I'm not a Royalist  but I've just realised that the Royal family actually stands for a lot more than I first thought."
Personally , I don't understand why so many seem to be anti-Royal ......they are completely innocuous ,don't have any legislative or Political power nor the power to tax,levy,tarrif etc etc 
I don't see how they can hurt anybody.
All they are is a living History museum , a spectacle of Pageantry and Pomp,a Tourist attraction and World trade Ambassadors.
You don't take offence at a British Trade Delegation , local Morris Dancers or Theatre Group .......they are the same .

OR ,ARE  THEY ? 

The answer is one that nobody here has pointed out ;  The Monarch of the United Kingdom is also The Head Honcho of the Church of England .That is a big deal . It's the National Religion .The two have been inextricably linked since HenryV111 and are a now a Siamese Twin ......I doubt that one could survive without the other in this co-dependent marriage.
 The Church is more powerful and richer than the Monarchy but the Monarchy created the Church.
For the British public to seek the demise of the Monarchy  is like Italian Catholics planning to topple the Pope and  the power of Vatican City. 
 When the Church fades away so will the Monarchy.
 Sunday attendances aren't great apparently ( I'm not Cof E ) but I think they've got plenty of time to go yet .

They’re the living embodiment of the Establishment and the idea that certain people have more entitlement to wealth and power purely by virtue of their birthright. 

To anyone who believes that people are born equal and should be judged by their actions and achievements the whole idea of the monarchy is anathema. 

The Church is just another branch of this establishment, helping to maintain the status quo and persuading the poor that it’s their lot and they should be grateful for what they get. All while piously claiming to be morally superior (while abusing their power in countless ways). 

I’d get rid of the lot of them. With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

Nearly enough likes for a full Politburo Comrade

They should bottle all this vitriol, I'm sure Putin could find a use for it.

TeleMaster

Don't worry the main beneficiaries of division are our own politicians. 

darthed1981

It's fine guys... look... I've found this...

https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/pierre-de-geyter/the-internationale-chords-2116255

and also

https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/misc-traditional/god-save-the-king-chords-4342463

If we all go away and learn one or the other, we could almost pretend this is a guitar forum

TeleMaster

Someone is very much on the ball with all these title changes, aren't they. 

markj

Emp_Fab said:

BECAUSE IT'S THE QUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

......AND WE'RE ALL MENTAL !!!

Sad gits.

TeleMaster

Guy at work is so pro royal he thinks that it really doesn't matter what they do, or if they do anything bad at all because they're royalty and they're exempt from any punishment. He's been up there all weekend and will go for the funeral day off on the bank holiday Monday.

If you love them fine, but turning a blind eye to any wrongdoing is an absolutely ridiculous attitude. 

Gilly

Dominic said:

Gilly said:

Dominic said:

We could ...........
 " I'm not a Royalist  but I've just realised that the Royal family actually stands for a lot more than I first thought."
Personally , I don't understand why so many seem to be anti-Royal ......they are completely innocuous ,don't have any legislative or Political power nor the power to tax,levy,tarrif etc etc 
I don't see how they can hurt anybody.
All they are is a living History museum , a spectacle of Pageantry and Pomp,a Tourist attraction and World trade Ambassadors.
You don't take offence at a British Trade Delegation , local Morris Dancers or Theatre Group .......they are the same .

OR ,ARE  THEY ? 

The answer is one that nobody here has pointed out ;  The Monarch of the United Kingdom is also The Head Honcho of the Church of England .That is a big deal . It's the National Religion .The two have been inextricably linked since HenryV111 and are a now a Siamese Twin ......I doubt that one could survive without the other in this co-dependent marriage.
 The Church is more powerful and richer than the Monarchy but the Monarchy created the Church.
For the British public to seek the demise of the Monarchy  is like Italian Catholics planning to topple the Pope and  the power of Vatican City. 
 When the Church fades away so will the Monarchy.
 Sunday attendances aren't great apparently ( I'm not Cof E ) but I think they've got plenty of time to go yet .

They’re the living embodiment of the Establishment and the idea that certain people have more entitlement to wealth and power purely by virtue of their birthright. 

To anyone who believes that people are born equal and should be judged by their actions and achievements the whole idea of the monarchy is anathema. 

The Church is just another branch of this establishment, helping to maintain the status quo and persuading the poor that it’s their lot and they should be grateful for what they get. All while piously claiming to be morally superior (while abusing their power in countless ways). 

I’d get rid of the lot of them. With very few exceptions, leaders become corrupted by power. I bet even the Queen had a few skeletons in her closet.

Nearly enough likes for a full Politburo Comrade

What a well considered and balanced argument.

Sambostar

Genuinely, I didn't understand the lyrics of this song when we used to cover it as teenagers, I didn't realise it was about accidentally shooting a friend with a gun, I just literally interpreted it as you are basically fucked, abandoned to the world and on your own, many years later, I rest with my original, metaphorical judgement.  

Dominic

Sorry Gilly ,I'm not looking for an argument .
You have your views and I have mine . I don't agree with your views but the beauty of democracy is that yours are as valid as mine and I'm comfortable with that .
I'm not Christian but I respect people who are and wouldn't for one moment want to see the Church abolished nor any other religion including my own.I do not despise or envy people of Faith nor those of Fotune.
I am probably complete anathema to a chap like you .....I went to Prep school and a famous Boarding Public school ,came from a privileged family although aspiring middle class not Establishment and was constantly ribbed by those of more 'aristocratic ' backgrounds and was considered common because my parents 'probably bought their own furniture ' as opposed to inheriting it . My father was a very succesful builder from a working class background .He worked from 5 am until midnight every day of his short life ,7 days a week , and died at 49 from a heart attack as a direct result .
 At 15 years old I resented that and being called an 'oik ' because I had a fight every day of my school life as a result .It gets pretty tiresome being pulled from your bed at 3a.m. by a gang of six because none of them can tackle you on their own ! But as I matured I realised that it is the way of the world whether we like it or not .Even in financial equality some of us are born better athletes ,some better looking and some with a pre-disposition to genetic illness or physical impediment......there is no true equality or 'fairness' in life and I think if we accept that and make the most of what we have whilst striving to be our best we have to be content and not consumed with avarice because it's not a nice look and benefits nobody.
I hope you accept that those are my views and no less noble than yours .

TeleMaster

The saddest part of that (aside from the premature death of your father, of course) is that you think that this is the way of the world and that's it.

Rather than saying, 'no it doesn't have to be that way' so many people succumb to it, end up accepting something they know is deeply unfair, become a part of it, repeat the cycle and end up letting those formative years, often of abuse and hardship turn them hard and defiant against the change that they need to keep fighting for. I imagine it would shock the young children who were being bullied to find out that they often become the bully too, and/or essentially advocate for something that led to them being bullied themselves. 

It's a sorry state that even those who come from a position of privilege end up with these sentiments, but I can understand why. Many people I know have the same attitude, but they are from much poorer backgrounds.

They only win if you give up, and you can't lose if you don't stop fighting. 

Dominic

I don't just THINK this is the way of the world .........I have learnt that it is . I applaud you're idealism and of course life is very unfair to so many in so many ways but to expect otherwise is like expecting that it wont rain because you don't have your umbrella.No equable society has endured due to human nature ......Chairman Mao did his best but look at China today .
 Undeserved /unearnt wealth is very unfair ......I despise it but I certainly don't resent those who have gone and acheived it.
Religion is for those who need it and I wouldn't deny anybody that crutch .