Not looking good for Queenie

Sporky

m_c said:

How would you feel if somebody started shouting abuse at you during your mum's funeral?

I'm all for free speech, but there are limits.

No-one did, so it's hard to say. I think the guy's a knobber. I don't think giving someone a beating because you don't like what they say is on.

If we're going hypothetical, what if they shrug it off and hospitalise you? What if the crowd turn on you and beat you to a pulp? Who's right then?

Brize

DrCornelius said:

Sporky said:

DrCornelius said:

Honestly if I was next to him I would have thumped him and not lost a minutes sleep over it 

You'd actually physically attack someone for saying something you didn't like? 

Once again this is far beyond that - it’s the queens funeral FFS and he’s disrupting it because he wants to exercise his right to free speech and doesn’t give a shit about everyone else paying their respects 

So Andrew can disrespect his mother when she was alive by acting in the way that he did, but the general public can't disrespect Andrew and his mother's memory after she has died?

I rate our new King very highly but he made an error judgement in allowing Andrew to be so visible during the mourning period - he should have grieved privately and William should have taken his place.

EricTheWeary

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/center-parcs-closes-uk-resorts-queen-funeral

You may think this is super thoughtful or completely ridiculous. I’m just a bit gobsmacked. 

Brize

EricTheWeary said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/sep/13/center-parcs-closes-uk-resorts-queen-funeral

You may think this is super thoughtful or completely ridiculous. I’m just a bit gobsmacked. 

Evidence, if any were needed, that corporations can make completely brainless decisions in their haste to virtue-signal.

DrCornelius

Brize said:

DrCornelius said:

Sporky said:

DrCornelius said:

Honestly if I was next to him I would have thumped him and not lost a minutes sleep over it 

You'd actually physically attack someone for saying something you didn't like? 

Once again this is far beyond that - it’s the queens funeral FFS and he’s disrupting it because he wants to exercise his right to free speech and doesn’t give a shit about everyone else paying their respects 

So Andrew can disrespect his mother when she was alive by acting in the way that he did, but the general public can't disrespect Andrew and his mother's memory after she has died?

Not during the queens funeral procession, no

Kittyfrisk

Let's see.  So far in this short discussion we have had potentially legally questionable libellous statements "Andrew is an unpleasant sweaty nonce, but even sweaty nonces should be allowed to mourn their mothers."
Prince Andrew has not been legally convicted of any offence (I know how I feel about him, but like everything else, it is just an opinion, not a fact).

Incitement to violence "Honestly if I was next to him I would have thumped him and not lost a minutes sleep over it "

And "There have to be limits." & "I'm all for free speech, but there are limits.".


This is clearly a highly emotive subject & I think maybe we all should take a deep breath & step away from the keyboards for a while?

ewal

DrCornelius said:

Sporky said:

DrCornelius said:

Honestly if I was next to him I would have thumped him and not lost a minutes sleep over it 

You'd actually physically attack someone for saying something you didn't like? 

Once again this is far beyond that - it’s the queens funeral FFS and he’s disrupting it because he wants to exercise his right to free speech and doesn’t give a shit about everyone else paying their respects 

He was a young guy caught up in the heat of the moment and reacted - not the most sensible thing to do, but unlikely to have been a pre-meditated protest.

Perhaps those organising the procession should've paused and thought about the risks of including Andrew quite so indiscretely. And don't give me the "but it was his mum" line - this is a public national ceremony not a family in mourning. Andrew could've shown his respects and grieved for his mum in private.

DrCornelius

ewal said:

DrCornelius said:

Sporky said:

DrCornelius said:

Honestly if I was next to him I would have thumped him and not lost a minutes sleep over it 

You'd actually physically attack someone for saying something you didn't like? 

Once again this is far beyond that - it’s the queens funeral FFS and he’s disrupting it because he wants to exercise his right to free speech and doesn’t give a shit about everyone else paying their respects 

He was a young guy caught up in the heat of the moment and reacted - not the most sensible thing to do, but unlikely to have been a pre-meditated protest.

Perhaps those organising the procession should've paused and thought about the risks of including Andrew quite so indiscretely. And don't give me the "but it was his mum" line - this is a public national ceremony not a family in mourning. Andrew could've shown his respects and grieved for his mum in private.

Respectfully disagree on both points tbh

TTony

Kittyfrisk said:

This is clearly a highly emotive subject & I think maybe we all should take a deep breath & step away from the keyboards for a while?

That’s the most sensible comment posted in the last too-many-pages.

markj

I’m self employed and will be working on Monday purely to get away from all the  coverage especially from the BBC. I could have easily stayed at home with my wife but I’ve absolutely had enough of everything about this.

TeleMaster

DrCornelius said:

Kittyfrisk said:

Everyone has lost their minds & what little reason they had.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62889396

The way things are progressing, we really are approaching the era of arrest for thought crime.

I’ll repeat my earlier comment - you’ve got to be a special sort of c*@# to heckle someone walking behind his mums coffin - I can’t believe you can’t see that ?

You've got to be a special sort of cunt to be involved with the trafficking of children across the world so you can do whatever to them. 

Those who are advocating for the removal of our basic right to express and protest, and the imprisonment of people who they don't agree with are leaving their logic at the door, and this happens all the time with the Royals.

If it was any other person accused of this they'd be saying he deserves everything he gets and anyone who says 'it's a funeral, give him a break' would be looked at like a daft fool because of the crimes of the person being heckled. But because of the family he was born into, ohhh it's wrong, and you get people saying they'd 'thump' someone, assault someone and commit a serious crime because they disagree with them over someone they've never met, who happens to be someone who very probably did some very serious crimes. 

I get that people like them, that's fine. I like Keith Richards. But if someone heckles his kid at a funeral over something they've done and I disagree with the appropriateness I'm just gonna shake my head, move away and get on with it. I may even defend their right to free speech! If they're not inciting violence or hatred, my offence does not trump their right to expression. 

VimFuego

I certainly hope we continue to disrespect the fat, sweaty nonce for a long time to come (and more TBH), I also think that, whilst in poor taste, the young man who shouted should not face charges. IMO, what he did was a grey area, not everything can be a crime or not a crime, we shouldn't be legislating for basic manners. What he did was rude, but not a crime (though I'm sure the flag shaggers on FB would disagree). I also think those who assaulted him should face charges, though I guess they would claim provocation and get off scott free.

DrCornelius

TTony said:

Kittyfrisk said:

This is clearly a highly emotive subject & I think maybe we all should take a deep breath & step away from the keyboards for a while?

That’s the most sensible comment posted in the last too-many-pages.

I must say that on the whole (with one exception early on ) we’ve disagreed with each other respectfully on here which I’m sure hasn’t been the case everywhere !

Emp_Fab

As much as I'm a fervent believer in free speech, funerals should be sacrosanct unless the deceased was a murderer or child abuser.  Whatever their failings, there are people who loved them and if you find them objectionable, have your say by all means at another time but allow families to say goodbye in peace.  If you can't manage that, you're no better than the person you despise so much.

TeleMaster

Emp_Fab said:

As much as I'm a fervent believer in free speech, funerals should be sacrosanct unless the deceased was a murderer or child abuser.  Whatever their failings, there are people who loved them and if you find them objectionable, have your say by all means at another time but allow families to say goodbye in peace.  If you can't manage that, you're no better than the person you despise so much.

You think that someone who heckles a child abuser at a funeral is as bad as a child abuser...? 

Emp_Fab

Can you read?

DrCornelius

TeleMaster said:

DrCornelius said:

Kittyfrisk said:

Everyone has lost their minds & what little reason they had.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62889396

The way things are progressing, we really are approaching the era of arrest for thought crime.

I’ll repeat my earlier comment - you’ve got to be a special sort of c*@# to heckle someone walking behind his mums coffin - I can’t believe you can’t see that ?

You've got to be a special sort of cunt to be involved with the trafficking of children across the world so you can do whatever to them. 

Those who are advocating for the removal of our basic right to express and protest, and the imprisonment of people who they don't agree with are leaving their logic at the door, and this happens all the time with the Royals.

If it was any other person accused of this they'd be saying he deserves everything he gets and anyone who says 'it's a funeral, give him a break' would be looked at like a daft fool because of the crimes of the person being heckled. But because of the family he was born into, ohhh it's wrong, and you get people saying they'd 'thump' someone, assault someone and commit a serious crime because they disagree with them over someone they've never met, who happens to be someone who very probably did some very serious crimes. 

I get that people like them, that's fine. I like Keith Richards. But if someone heckles his kid at a funeral over something they've done and I disagree with the appropriateness I'm just gonna shake my head, move away and get on with it. I may even defend their right to free speech! If they're not inciting violence or hatred, my offence does not trump their right to expression. 

Its the queens funeral procession not Andrew’s, if you are shouting shit out as it goes past while all around you are mourning you are disrespecting the Queen (as well as disrespecting the people in silent contemplation all around you)

Ive already said my bit many times about Andrews degree of culpability so I won’t go over that yet again  

ewal

DrCornelius said:

ewal said:

DrCornelius said:

Sporky said:

DrCornelius said:

Honestly if I was next to him I would have thumped him and not lost a minutes sleep over it 

You'd actually physically attack someone for saying something you didn't like? 

Once again this is far beyond that - it’s the queens funeral FFS and he’s disrupting it because he wants to exercise his right to free speech and doesn’t give a shit about everyone else paying their respects 

He was a young guy caught up in the heat of the moment and reacted - not the most sensible thing to do, but unlikely to have been a pre-meditated protest.

Perhaps those organising the procession should've paused and thought about the risks of including Andrew quite so indiscretely. And don't give me the "but it was his mum" line - this is a public national ceremony not a family in mourning. Andrew could've shown his respects and grieved for his mum in private.

Respectfully disagree on both points tbh

I would respectfully suggest that neither of us know his motivation. However having watched the footage, and the aftermath when he was speaking to the police, I'm sticking with 'high unlikely to have been pre-meditated'. And definitely a posh teenager.

As for the second point - perhaps you are a better arbiter than I over who should or shouldn't have been allowed to participate in this national procession - I find the whole thing grotesquely over-blown and anachronistic. As such, I am not best placed to judge.

DrCornelius

Emp_Fab said:

As much as I'm a fervent believer in free speech, funerals should be sacrosanct unless the deceased was a murderer or child abuser.  Whatever their failings, there are people who loved them and if you find them objectionable, have your say by all means at another time but allow families to say goodbye in peace.  If you can't manage that, you're no better than the person you despise so much.

I wish I could Wiz you twice Emp

TeleMaster

DrCornelius said:

TeleMaster said:

DrCornelius said:

Kittyfrisk said:

Everyone has lost their minds & what little reason they had.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-62889396

The way things are progressing, we really are approaching the era of arrest for thought crime.

I’ll repeat my earlier comment - you’ve got to be a special sort of c*@# to heckle someone walking behind his mums coffin - I can’t believe you can’t see that ?

You've got to be a special sort of cunt to be involved with the trafficking of children across the world so you can do whatever to them. 

Those who are advocating for the removal of our basic right to express and protest, and the imprisonment of people who they don't agree with are leaving their logic at the door, and this happens all the time with the Royals.

If it was any other person accused of this they'd be saying he deserves everything he gets and anyone who says 'it's a funeral, give him a break' would be looked at like a daft fool because of the crimes of the person being heckled. But because of the family he was born into, ohhh it's wrong, and you get people saying they'd 'thump' someone, assault someone and commit a serious crime because they disagree with them over someone they've never met, who happens to be someone who very probably did some very serious crimes. 

I get that people like them, that's fine. I like Keith Richards. But if someone heckles his kid at a funeral over something they've done and I disagree with the appropriateness I'm just gonna shake my head, move away and get on with it. I may even defend their right to free speech! If they're not inciting violence or hatred, my offence does not trump their right to expression. 

Its the queens funeral procession not Andrew’s, if you are shouting shit out as it goes past while all around you are mourning you are disrespecting the Queen (as well as disrespecting the people in silent contemplation all around you)

Ive already said my bit many times about Andrews degree of culpability so I won’t go over that yet again  

Yea maybe it is disrespectful, but being disrespectful isn't illegal, and shouldn't be and people shouldn't be locked up for it or prosecuted unless they are inciting violence or hatred, which none of them have. And you don't get to 'thump' someone without recourse because someone has disrespected someone and you wouldn't be saying they should be if it was any other person. So again, I don't think this is a logical argument. 

If you start imposing particular laws and restrictions around the royals you will end up with a situation like they have in Thailand where they can't speak negatively about their royal family and you can be prosecuted for doing so. That's what people are basicslly advocating for. 

The disrespect thing is irrelevant. It doesn't mean you get to lock people up, whoever is is, however distasteful, just for showing disrespect. end of story.