The F1 thread

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Ham has a new 2-year deal with Merc. Presumably setting the scene for a Russell/Bottas decision over the summer.

This may favour Bottas. Hamilton has been praising his current teammate and is possibly wary of Russell - I doubt he wants a repeat of the Rosberg years during his swansong.

I hope Russell gets to partner Hamilton in 2022.

Yep, agree with all of that. If I were Toto and the Merc board I'd want Russell to give a succession plan, and bed him in alongside Lewis, and I'd make that the one non-negotiable point with Lewis. But I can 100% understand why Lewis might not want it!

chillidoggy

At what point does Russell start to get fed-up with waiting? No idea what his contract says, but can he, or will he, wait forever? Could another team snap him up?

I feel surely he must have had a heads-up from Merc one way or the other.

dazzajl

If Lewis wants to really know himself by competing against the very best and finding his measure, he’ll want Russell. If he just wants more wins, he’s going to push for Bottas to stay. 

The question of what Mercedes want is much more complicated. Nice and easy to manage pair with one great driver. Or two great drivers and all the possibly disastrous consequences. 

sinbaadi

Next year's rule changes are definitely a status-quo disruptor.  Hamilton has his work cut out this year, and next year has no guarantee of being any easier.  With their lead driver not winning the title, there's definitely going to be more impetuous to change things, and there will be doubt creeping in about whether Hamilton has still "got it".  That's when Russell will get the second seat, if not for '22 which in my opinion is still quite likely.

To be honest if Hamilton is obstructing Russell getting signed then:
A:. He's a coward and can never be honestly considered a truly great driver.

B:. Merc will give nothing to, and get nothing special from, Bottas, who will feel like nothing more than the journeyman he seems to be anyway.
C:. It speaks volumes about the nature of competition in F1.

fretmeister

sinbaadi said:

Next year's rule changes are definitely a status-quo disruptor.  Hamilton has his work cut out this year, and next year has no guarantee of being any easier.  With their lead driver not winning the title, there's definitely going to be more impetuous to change things, and there will be doubt creeping in about whether Hamilton has still "got it".  That's when Russell will get the second seat, if not for '22 which in my opinion is still quite likely.

To be honest if Hamilton is obstructing Russell getting signed then:
A:. He's a coward and can never be honestly considered a truly great driver.

B:. Merc will give nothing to, and get nothing special from, Bottas, who will feel like nothing more than the journeyman he seems to be anyway.
C:. It speaks volumes about the nature of competition in F1.

a ha hahahahahahahaha!

Just like the greats of the past didn't try to have a say over the other driver in the team.

skullfunkerry

Nice trolling in the planetf1 commentary of FP3:

"Mazepin is checking out the gravel again, returning to the track once that inspection is complete."

sweepy

What a farce the F3 qualifying wS, on short circuits they should split the qualifying into 2x20 mins sessions with a random allocation to tsesdion A or B, the present system is dangerous 

sinbaadi

fretmeister said:

sinbaadi said:

Next year's rule changes are definitely a status-quo disruptor.  Hamilton has his work cut out this year, and next year has no guarantee of being any easier.  With their lead driver not winning the title, there's definitely going to be more impetuous to change things, and there will be doubt creeping in about whether Hamilton has still "got it".  That's when Russell will get the second seat, if not for '22 which in my opinion is still quite likely.

To be honest if Hamilton is obstructing Russell getting signed then:
A:. He's a coward and can never be honestly considered a truly great driver.

B:. Merc will give nothing to, and get nothing special from, Bottas, who will feel like nothing more than the journeyman he seems to be anyway.
C:. It speaks volumes about the nature of competition in F1.

a ha hahahahahahahaha!

Just like the greats of the past didn't try to have a say over the other driver in the team.

So you're saying we can only say any 'great' driver is great within a limited frame of reference?

fretmeister

sinbaadi said:

fretmeister said:

sinbaadi said:

Next year's rule changes are definitely a status-quo disruptor.  Hamilton has his work cut out this year, and next year has no guarantee of being any easier.  With their lead driver not winning the title, there's definitely going to be more impetuous to change things, and there will be doubt creeping in about whether Hamilton has still "got it".  That's when Russell will get the second seat, if not for '22 which in my opinion is still quite likely.

To be honest if Hamilton is obstructing Russell getting signed then:
A:. He's a coward and can never be honestly considered a truly great driver.

B:. Merc will give nothing to, and get nothing special from, Bottas, who will feel like nothing more than the journeyman he seems to be anyway.
C:. It speaks volumes about the nature of competition in F1.

a ha hahahahahahahaha!

Just like the greats of the past didn't try to have a say over the other driver in the team.

So you're saying we can only say any 'great' driver is great within a limited frame of reference?

No. Nice try though.

markr76

Hamilton can say who he’d prefer as his teammate. But it’s Toto not Hamilton who says who drives the cars. I guess Toto is worried about upsetting the calm in the garage too much. Especially as it’s still fresh in our minds of the Hamilton Rosberg time. But he also knows that we are going to need 2 high performing drivers to win the constructors championship. Which is the really important one to Mercedes.

markr76

Although I do agree with you that Hamilton shouldn’t care who’s his teammate is. From talking to him in the past. He says he doesn’t care who his teammate is, he’ll do his best to beat them all the same.

Fretwired

markr76 said:

Hamilton can say who he’d prefer as his teammate. But it’s Toto not Hamilton who says who drives the cars. I guess Toto is worried about upsetting the calm in the garage too much. Especially as it’s still fresh in our minds of the Hamilton Rosberg time. But he also knows that we are going to need 2 high performing drivers to win the constructors championship. Which is the really important one to Mercedes.

In any business you want stability. The pairing of Hamilton and Bottas has worked well for Mercedes since Rosberg retired and with rule changes for 2022, there are some major benefits to retaining both drivers - namely continuity. However, Bottas has done himself no favours with a patchy performance so far in 2021, although he has had some bad luck. The main threat at the moment is Red Bull - Bottas just has to be able to beat Perez and qualify right behind Hamilton to support him.

Russell has done well at Williams, but is he really under pressure driving in the bottom team in F1? At Mercedes, he would be expected to win races. But just look at the excellent drivers who have been through the mill trying to support Verstappen at Red Bull - it's not easy to step up from an average F1 team to a front running F1 team. Look at Ricciardo who is a great driver who is now struggling at McLaren.

Russell had one shot at Mercedes and he did well - but again was he under pressure? He had nothing to lose.

I bet Wolff is scratching his head - stability by sticking with Bottas or take a risk with Russell and upset Hamilton and the team dynamic? If Bottas ups his game I wouldn't bet again on him keeping his seat. If he doesn't then Wolff will have no choice but to turn to Russell.

I'd love to See Hamilton v Russell but then again I don't run Mercedes. Wolff will have the 2016 Spanish Grand Prix in the back of his mind.

Cols

Verstappen’s half a second down the road.  On a short track like the Ostereichring, that’s an eternity.

On Hamilton and team mates - Bottas doesn’t consistently challenge him, but normally provides suitably quick backup.  And Lewis is driving much better now than he did when Nico was giving him a hard time.  

As long as Lewis is still committed and delivering at superstar level, there’s no strong motive for Toto to introduce a disruptive element.  FWIW, I think the second driver will be Russell, under strict instructions to be on his best behaviour.

Great drivers have always sought to draw the team around themselves and prefer a team mate that doesn’t detract from that focus.  I can’t blame Hamilton for preferring to maintain the status quo rather than having to put some manners on a new guy.

markr76

I totally agree. Plus it must be a worry to Toto that if he replaces Bottas and Russell doesn’t do any better. He’ll look a bit silly. A bit like red bull did swapping Gasly.

At the minute though we do need to make sure both drivers are performing. Especially now red bull have such a strong driver lineup. 

markr76

Cols said:

Verstappen’s half a second down the road.  On a short track like the Ostereichring, that’s an eternity.

On Hamilton and team mates - Bottas doesn’t consistently challenge him, but normally provides suitably quick backup.  And Lewis is driving much better now than he did when Nico was giving him a hard time.  

As long as Lewis is still committed and delivering at superstar level, there’s no strong motive for Toto to introduce a disruptive element.  FWIW, I think the second driver will be Russell, under strict instructions to be on his best behaviour.

Great drivers have always sought to draw the team around themselves and prefer a team mate that doesn’t detract from that focus.  I can’t blame Hamilton for preferring to maintain the status quo rather than having to put some manners on a new guy.

Hamilton went faster than that in fp2 yesterday. So I think it will be tight today. Although I do think Redbull have a bit more power to come in qualifying.

Back in the Rosberg Hamilton days. It was actually Rosberg who did most of the shit stirring and dirty tricks. I think he thought he cools break Lewis mentally. But all along it was Lewis breaking Nico!!

Fretwired

markr76 said:

I totally agree. Plus it must be a worry to Toto that if he replaces Bottas and Russell doesn’t do any better. He’ll look a bit silly. A bit like red bull did swapping Gasly.

At the minute though we do need to make sure both drivers are performing. Especially now red bull have such a strong driver lineup. 

You need to get your strategy guys to up their game. For example, Hamilton would have won in France had he been brought in one lap earlier for new tyres.

markr76

Fretwired said:

markr76 said:

I totally agree. Plus it must be a worry to Toto that if he replaces Bottas and Russell doesn’t do any better. He’ll look a bit silly. A bit like red bull did swapping Gasly.

At the minute though we do need to make sure both drivers are performing. Especially now red bull have such a strong driver lineup. 

You need to get your strategy guys to up their game. For example, Hamilton would have won in France had he been brought in one lap earlier for new tyres.

It wasn’t quite as simple as that. Ultimately Redbull we’re too quick there for us. But, because Bottas destroyed his tires in the first stint. They had to put him earlier than intended. Which kind of set off a chain reaction. Plus the undercut Redbull did was a lot more powerful than the the race engineers anticipated. 

But they admitted to us at the factory they cocked up. But on the flip side they have also won us a lot of races. Although it helps when the car is performing better.

stickyfiddle

Geeeeeeeooooorge Ruuuuuusssssssssell!!!!!!!

Fretwired

Lando Norris .. amazing. Mercedes behind McLaren .. Russell P9. Mercedes going backward.

fretmeister

If this continues then Norris is going to be taking points from LH as well.